Prusa Mini Print Surface Shoot Out  

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bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @charles-h13

The Prusa TXT sheet failed on the 400 cylinder test - I wake treated by 400 cylinders everywhere and a blob around the hotend.  I will watch the video to determine what happened.  

The peg test tends to fail spectacularly if bits get stuck to the nozzle.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 13/10/2020 12:11 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member

@bobstro

That is exactly what happened.  100 of 100 were successful on the short one.  0 of 400 on the Big one.  

I am going to repeat the test tonight.  

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 13/10/2020 12:52 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member

Redid the test.  I am shocked.  The Prusa Txt has now 8/10 locked down do far.  I will calculate the scores, but I think Triangle labs won.  I may try one more time.  

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 14/10/2020 3:28 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member

@charles-h13 - I can see this being an ongoing series.

1. Try same tests with different filament types on your existing stable of surfaces.

2. When a new surface is released, run the suite and add the results.

I'm also wondering how to use and test other surfaces on the Mk3 given the PINDA setup. I inadvertently purchased several 12x12 inch sheets of Garolite and was surprised how well that surface works on my (manually leveled) Sidewinder. It's thick enough that I'd expect issues with the PINDA probe, and I really don't want to mess with my PINDA setup, but it would be fun to try thicker print surfaces.

This post was modified 3 months ago by bobstro
My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 14/10/2020 3:48 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Noble Member

@bobstro

You could purchase a very thin sheet of spring steel of a known thickness, put it on top of your Garolite during mesh levelling and then remove it afterwards, then adjust the live z during the skirt to get it down to the level you need. 

Posted : 14/10/2020 4:12 pm
mark
(@mark-7)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @bobstro

@charles-h13 - I can see this being an ongoing series.

1. Try same tests with different filament types on your existing stable of surfaces.

The issue with other filament types is they are more dependent on the surface treatment and other conditions.

In my experience with PETG, the adhesion is highly dependent on what is used on the surface. My current surface treatment is a combination of Elmer's glue stick and Windex. For thin objects with a lot of surface area, I use more glue stick. For large, stiff objects, I use all Windex. The surface treatment could also vary with the surface, making a lot of variables to track besides just the surface.

In my experience with ASA, the enclosure, skirt and brim is really critical to not having it come off due to warping. The pegs would not come off due to warping, so maybe that might be easier to do.

Both of these filaments exhibit big differences in performance depending on the dryness level too.

@charles-h13, this effort is appreciated but for PETG and ASA I could see it being a huge science project with so many variables besides the surface itself.

Regards,

Mark

Posted : 14/10/2020 4:38 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @neophyl

[...] You could purchase a very thin sheet of spring steel of a known thickness, put it on top of your Garolite during mesh levelling and then remove it afterwards, then adjust the live z during the skirt to get it down to the level you need. 

I suppose I could glue the garolite to a spring steel sheet, flip it for mesh bed leveling, and flip it back to print. A bit of a hassle but it would keep the thickness consistent. The actual leveling will probably be off though.

I was hoping to test some funky surfaces for textures, but it's definitely a challenge on the Prusa (in a good way).

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 14/10/2020 8:47 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Noble Member

@bobstro

Flipping the sheet would not be good UNLESS the sheet is an absolutely even thickness in all directions, otherwise an area that is slightly high on one side and adjusted for on the mesh would be transposed to the other side so would in effect be inverted adjustment wise.  That's why placing the sheet on top should give a better mesh result as long as its flush with the surface.  I was thinking very thin sheet, bit more than foil but not much more, just enough for the PINDA to react to.

Posted : 14/10/2020 8:54 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member

@bobstro

I will do this as an ongoing series.  More tonight.  I am going to try to redo my Z.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 14/10/2020 9:10 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @neophyl

[...] I was thinking very thin sheet, bit more than foil but not much more, just enough for the PINDA to react to.

I thought about a foil tape of some sort, but it would be expensive and annoying. I probably need to tweak the Prusa firmware to make this easier (e.g. level once per print session, not every print). It's not a big priority, but it comes up now and then. Thinner garolite is another option.

I know garolite is considered old school, but the results were pretty good. Sort of a low maintenance PEI for the impatient.

This post was modified 3 months ago by bobstro
My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 14/10/2020 9:46 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member

In my tests, I may have had my Z too low on the Prusa TXT sheet.  

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 15/10/2020 12:08 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @charles-h13

In my tests, I may have had my Z too low on the Prusa TXT sheet.  

The peg test demands precision!

Repeat testing until desired results achieved. 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 15/10/2020 2:27 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member

Anyone have a good print to dial in the Z prior to the tortuous peg test?

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 15/10/2020 2:33 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @charles-h13

Anyone have a good print to dial in the Z prior to the tortuous peg test?

I use one of these variants. OpenSCAD source is included if you want to tweak it. Unfortunately, the Thingiverse customizer seems busted, but I included a range of STLs. 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 15/10/2020 2:48 am
Same Old Shane
(@same-old-shane)
Admin

@charles-h13

Stupid question on my side... If you are really concerned,  put the textured plate on, and use the PLA first calibration test. and get it set close. Then write down the value. Then swap filament to PETG (when it asks if the color is clear I say no 3 times to make sure the differences in the material is removed and its all the main filament you are using) raise the live Z by say 50 microns so the nozzle is higher from the bed and then make your adjustments again? 

Just a thought if you are concerned with the textured sheet.

 

Shane (AKA FromPrusa)...
Posted : 15/10/2020 1:17 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member

@bobstro

Thank you.  That did it.  I had my Z on the Prusa set to -0.1265.  That worked with a first layer test and normal prints.  I had some failures and not I know why: the Z was actually -0.1360.  The peg test highlighted the problem.  

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 16/10/2020 1:04 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member
Posted by: @charles-h13

Ok.  I am about to start.  

The tests: 1-60mmx60mm square, 100-3mmx3mmx5mm pegs, and a first layers test.

Scoring:

  • Number of pegs remaining: 100/100 - it will be 400 3mmx3mmx3mm cylindars
  • First layer quality: 100/100
  • Easy of removal: 100/100
  • Ease of dial in: 100/100
  • Durability: 100/100

I will clean each bed with soap and water prior to use.  Each surface is brand new.  

As a part of each post, I will give you their Live Z and thickness as a comparison.  The filament used will be Silver Prusa PLA.  

First in the Shoot: Prusa TXT vs Trianglelabs TXT

Ok.  I adjusted the criteria.  

What should I do with a tie?

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 16/10/2020 1:24 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @charles-h13 
What should I do with a tie?
I wouldn't worry about it unless you intend to award a 1st place. Knowing that 2 different products scored identically is valuable data when evaluating alternatives.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 16/10/2020 2:21 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member

@bobstro

Still have 2 hours to print but ti looks promising.  

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 16/10/2020 2:32 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member

I forgot to put up the brackets - they were randomly selected

 

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 17/10/2020 3:17 am
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