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Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa  

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Joey
 Joey
(@joey-2)
Estimable Member
Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

I have an Mk3 and an Mk3S, they are dream machines.

I received my Mini on Mar 23. It has been a bag of problems - improper movement of the x axis and underextrusion. I have watched videos, read plenty of comments on Forum, waited too long on help chat, and yesterday sent an email with pics and video (no response yet). I just flashed with 4.0.5, still underextrusion.

I don't think I should have to with grub screws and reseating the heatbreak. Late March should have been enough time for Prusa to dial in the assembly process.

Three possible solutions:

1. Sell on craigslist, with full disclosure.

2. Try to return to Prusa, from Milw, WI, USA. (This requires waiting for chat help.)

3. Get a repair/rebuild kit from Prusa - extra grub screws, maybe ptfe tube cut to proper length, I don't know. (This also requires waiting dfor chat help.)

What would you do? I want to be fair to all, but I don't know how much more time I should be expected to give this product.

 

 

Mk3 - 1X
Mk3S - 2X
2021 Hyundai Palisade
Wife - 1X...
Posted : 30/03/2020 4:07 pm
bobc
 bobc
(@bobc)
Reputable Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

I would keep it and get it working. The heatbreak adjustment solved my issues with extrusion. I admit there was a point where I was ready for RMA, but I'm glad I persevered, because now I'm getting good, reliable printing.

What was the problem with the X axis?

 

Posted : 30/03/2020 4:47 pm
Joey
 Joey
(@joey-2)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

X axis: when I went to "stop" print the x-axis would slam against the y-assembly. As if it didn't know where limit was.  4.0.5 dealt with axis end.

I'll wait to hear what Prusa says in response to my email and pics & video.

I want to get it to work, but my time is worth something.

Mk3 - 1X
Mk3S - 2X
2021 Hyundai Palisade
Wife - 1X...
Posted : 30/03/2020 5:20 pm
bobc
 bobc
(@bobc)
Reputable Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

LOL, people who say that always sound so arrogant. Also kinda ironic when you are expecting people to spend their free time answering your questions 🙂

Posted : 30/03/2020 6:31 pm
Joey
 Joey
(@joey-2)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

@bobcousins

What do you mean?

I appreciate all the help on this forum.

I think Prusa dropped the ball on this. Why should I have to rebuild the hot end? I would rather have bought the Mini as a true kit.

Prusa has responded to my email and I will follow their hints.

My heatbreak is measuring 4.9 which is at the limit of what they suggest.

Mk3 - 1X
Mk3S - 2X
2021 Hyundai Palisade
Wife - 1X...
Posted : 30/03/2020 7:05 pm
WouterV
(@wouterv)
Eminent Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

Yes Prusa did drop the ball on this, but what makes me really happy is to see the list of fixes/features in the 4.0.5 RC firmware - the developers are working hard on some really awesome stuff. And for me at least they seem to have fixed the X-axis slamming issue. 

Regarding underextrusion - Bondtech has started producing a heat-break for the Mini that supposedly has no heat creep (which seems to be the underlying cause of underextrusion), and where the tension on the PTFE tube and the length is not critical, because it's in the cold zone (at least, that's what they say). They recently added cheaper shipping as well so I ordered one for my mini. How this issue escaped Prusa QC and testing is puzzling but if this €20 mod can make my Mini up to snuff again I'm a happy camper, and I'm sure Prusa Research will learn from this. All in all, it is not a perfect product but it's still better than most of the competition and I'm glad to support open hardware/software.

Posted : 31/03/2020 6:15 pm
AZ_TIM liked
3Dprintedgr
(@3dprintedgr)
Estimable Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

True, the team is working on updates and upgrades. Some design flaws unfortunately cannot change because they are major design characteristics but overall the team is doing great. Except from the size another reason why I keep waiting for mine is the features that will be added in the future. It was really interesting to see that Bondtech created 2 products already, the heatbreak that you mentioned and the dual drive extrusion kit. This machine might not be as good as the Mk3s but for half the money and size its produces great results.

 

Original Prusa Mini + Smooth PEI
Prusa Slicer 2.2.0...
Posted : 31/03/2020 7:56 pm
AZ_TIM liked
Alex3d
(@alex3d)
Eminent Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

Hi. I didn't have a good experience with tech support either.
It is my first Prusa printer and I expected something else from them or a printer that works well on the first day as they announced. If I have to start buying another extruder for it to work I find the purchase of the mini prusa ridiculous.
I've had it for almost two months now and I still haven't gotten good results.

 

Posted : 01/04/2020 1:40 pm
WouterV
(@wouterv)
Eminent Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

Don't think you need the upgraded extruder, if you use abrasive filament or want to print faster than the stock profiles it could be handy.

Posted : 01/04/2020 1:57 pm
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Noble Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

Purely personal opinion but I wonder if a process that relys on squirting hot plastic and moving in 3 dimensions will ever be a consumer , take it out of the box and it just works, product. I think you either accept that you're going to have to tweak it (and yes maybe buy upgrade parts) of find some other way. Inevitably manufacturers make compromises to achieve a price point, not all features are required by all users.

Posted : 01/04/2020 2:01 pm
Alex3d
(@alex3d)
Eminent Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

You're right. But I was expecting something else. When I bought the ender 3 I didn't expect anything and I was surprised and I see it right to update parts and improve it. In this case they have advertised and videoed that you buy this printer so you don't have problems like a Chinese printer and that's not the case. I see that people like Prusa have no problems to improve it and find solutions but I insist, it is not what they say in the ad or what Mr. Prusa said in the videos.

Posted : 01/04/2020 2:28 pm
AZ_TIM
(@az_tim)
Trusted Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

@wouterv

This is great news. I'm still waiting for my mini to arrive, but just knowing about upgrade parts out there is comforting. I will wait and see what issues I have or don't have, but have some options to address them as they crop up.  This forum is very useful for getting information.

I'm not a mad scientist, I'm an angry engineer in training....
Posted : 01/04/2020 3:39 pm
Alex3d
(@alex3d)
Eminent Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

Thanks to this forum and the people we can solve problems.
If you call the technical service is slower and do not solve the problems.

Posted : 01/04/2020 3:44 pm
julian_bauknecht
(@julian_bauknecht)
Active Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

Hey, i had so many issues accumulated with this printer that i asked myself the same question if i should sell it or return it and maby ask if i could pay for an upgrade to an proper MK3. But i think a lot of the Problems come from the entry level price point, maby you just cant expect more at that price. I think for myself i bought it with too high expectations, the only real problem there is, that the MINI is comunicated as roughtly: "nearly as good but smaller than the MK3". Thats clearly not the case.

But i think there are two categories of problems for me, on one hand the big functional ones that shouldent occure in a entry level printer or in any printer. For me thats my problem with the z-probe values all over the place and the badly designed/assembled printhead. But with the first one the Support was very helpfull, atleast the second time, they send me a new Probe and hopefully that will fix it. And the problem with the hotend will hopefully be fixed with the Bondtech heatbreake. That are Problems i am willing to tackle if there is a solution at all, but they should better be fixed in upcoming Versions, because this kind of Problems are very hard to figure out for beginners, and thats the Group the Printer is aimt at. I rly love the idear of an cheap entry level printer to get 3D Printing acessible for more People, but such Problems are not good for the case.

The other problems mainly with calibration i head are more sort of luxury problems, i mean that that the x/y steps have to be calibrated is not uncommen. Biggest problem for me in that category is that the Printer design over all is not rly usefull for tecnical prints with any sort of tolerances, but for decorativ prints the printer should be fine. And i assume thats mostly what beginners would use the printer for anyway. For me personally an 88° angle is not acceptable. But i think thats the point where i cant blame Prusa and should have bought the appropriate Printer for the usecase in the first place. On the MINI thats an inherent problem of the onesided costdriven design. Only problem i see hereis that the addvertisement like "great printer for printfarms" is a little bit missleading.

Over all i will whait for the exchange Z-probe and the tuning hotend and then i will see how the printer works with them installed. If this problems are fixed i can live with it and blame myself for beeing cheep and not buing the approriate printer, but if the printer stays unusable like atm i have to return or sell it.

tyvm for the grat information here in the forum, rly helpfull and great community. Also nevertheless great work from Prusa making 3d printing more acessible even if i think they got a little bit to far with the price optimazation here, but thats the problem that you always only afterwards know what is "a little bit to far" with massproducing.

Posted : 04/04/2020 3:04 pm
Joey
 Joey
(@joey-2)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

My printer is boxed and DHL has been called for pickup. I will have more to say later after the credit clears, I don't want to jinx the return or credit.

 

Mk3 - 1X
Mk3S - 2X
2021 Hyundai Palisade
Wife - 1X...
Posted : 04/04/2020 3:10 pm
Alex3d
(@alex3d)
Eminent Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

@bob-h9 

I asked the technical service if the printer can be returned and they didn't want to answer me.

 

Posted : 04/04/2020 4:20 pm
Alex3d
(@alex3d)
Eminent Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

@julian_bauknecht

I also think that if you don't make functional parts it's perfect.
But as a first printer for a beginner it can be frustrating.
do you think that with the mk3s it doesn't have those problems that you mention?

Posted : 04/04/2020 4:27 pm
WouterV
(@wouterv)
Eminent Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa
Posted by: @julian_bauknecht

Biggest problem for me in that category is that the Printer design over all is not rly usefull for tecnical prints with any sort of tolerances, but for decorativ prints the printer should be fine. And i assume thats mostly what beginners would use the printer for anyway. For me personally an 88° angle is not acceptable. But i think thats the point where i cant blame Prusa and should have bought the appropriate Printer for the usecase in the first place. On the MINI thats an inherent problem of the onesided costdriven design. Only problem i see hereis that the addvertisement like "great printer for printfarms" is a little bit missleading.

How do you have an angle (what angle?) of 88 degrees? Is your aluminium extrusion not straight? FYI there are people who have made their printing bed exceedingly flat, one might even say 'true level':

https://forum.prusaprinters.org/forum/user-mods-octoprint-enclosures-nozzles/prusa-mini-silicone-bed-leveling-mod/

@alex3d "I asked the technical service if the printer can be returned and they didn't want to answer me"

Prusa's customer support has a backlog of like a week, how long have you waited?

 

This post was modified 2 years ago by WouterV
Posted : 04/04/2020 5:18 pm
julian_bauknecht
(@julian_bauknecht)
Active Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa
Posted by: @wouterv
How do you have an angle (what angle?) of 88 degrees? Is your aluminium extrusion not straight? FYI there are people who have made their printing bed exceedingly flat, one might even say 'true level':
I mean the angle between X and Y:
I think its a combination between the aluminium extrusion and all bolting points. i managed to get it fairly angele by losening all screws on top and bottom of the extrusion, and there is enought slack to adjust it straight. Problem is, if you move te printer it dosnt allways stay true.
 
I also think that if you don't make functional parts it's perfect.
But as a first printer for a beginner it can be frustrating.
do you think that with the mk3s it doesn't have those problems that you mention?
i cant answer that perfectly since i dont own a mk3 myself, but the ones i saw didnt suffered from that kind of problems. With the mk3 the z-probe has a temerature compensation sensor. The hotend is a very well testet e3d v6 hotend and the extruder is direct drive. For the calibration, the MK3 has automatic compensation for calibration or angle error build in the headbead with special probing points and correction in software. But thats not always needed, even with the more rigid frame of my ender3 style printer without compensation the angle is perfectly stable if you build it ortogonal in the first place.
 
All in all the MK3 is a better printer for a higher price, and you cant ask for all the features from the mk3 for the price of the MINI. Also the MK3 is much more refined becaus its the third edition. So I think if you want to print technical parts the MK3 is the way better option. But thats not rly comunicated in the offering overly well.
I think if the z probe gets fixed and with functioning hotend the MINI is a fair offering, and at that price point its ok to adjust a few thinks on your own. its just not extremly beginner frindly, but to some extend that are two opossing requirements, build a hasse free printer and build a cheap printer.
 
Posted : 04/04/2020 6:57 pm
Alex3d
(@alex3d)
Eminent Member
RE: Advice re: sell or try to return to Prusa

@julian_bauknech

I have the same problem with the x-y angle.
I don't know if that's why I get edges on circular pieces.
I'll try to adjust it but I don't quite understand how to do it.
I've also seen that the y-axis has a slight drop
The bed is level but if you hold the noozle in one corner of the bed in the other corner it has a 2 mm difference and rubs the bed. 

 

Posted : 07/04/2020 6:44 pm
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