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targodove
(@targodove)
New Member
True 3D Printing

Where can we request new features? I want to request Prusa consider implementing True 3D printing as described in this video:

Best Answer by bobstro:

Posted by: targodove

Where can we request new features? I want to request Prusa consider implementing True 3D printing as described in this video: 

You mean the same feature that was discussed back in 2016? It's not new. It's not something that was just discovered. The problem is that it is limited to the height of your nozzle from any underside surface, which means that on a Prusa Mk3 with fan shroud and PINDA probe, it simply won't work without ripping apart the printer. Great for someone curious, but not recommended for every user. Even with a "suitable" printer, you're talking about 8mm or less of deviation between layers, and less-than-ideal nozzle angles. It's really cool, but not something trivial to implement on current consumer-grade FFF printers.

Who knows, somebody may try putting out a new printer with such capabilities, but with the race-to-the-bottom with low-end printers going on, I'd expect it to be expensive. It simply won't be profitable for a company to do all the R&D and testing to put out something cheap only to have it cloned in a few months.

I believe you can add comments to the already-long list of requests on Prusa's GitHub page.

I do have an address of some guy at the North Pole you could try... 🙂

Posted : 06/09/2019 1:36 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: True 3D Printing
Posted by: targodove

Where can we request new features? I want to request Prusa consider implementing True 3D printing as described in this video: 

You mean the same feature that was discussed back in 2016? It's not new. It's not something that was just discovered. The problem is that it is limited to the height of your nozzle from any underside surface, which means that on a Prusa Mk3 with fan shroud and PINDA probe, it simply won't work without ripping apart the printer. Great for someone curious, but not recommended for every user. Even with a "suitable" printer, you're talking about 8mm or less of deviation between layers, and less-than-ideal nozzle angles. It's really cool, but not something trivial to implement on current consumer-grade FFF printers.

Who knows, somebody may try putting out a new printer with such capabilities, but with the race-to-the-bottom with low-end printers going on, I'd expect it to be expensive. It simply won't be profitable for a company to do all the R&D and testing to put out something cheap only to have it cloned in a few months.

I believe you can add comments to the already-long list of requests on Prusa's GitHub page.

I do have an address of some guy at the North Pole you could try... 🙂

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 06/09/2019 2:32 pm
targodove liked
Lichtjaeger
(@lichtjaeger)
Noble Member
RE: True 3D Printing

You will have the same limitations as with a CNC but because our tool is much smaller it will have a bigger impact. To avoid a collision you can only print flat objects with small angles.

The CNC world compensated this limitation by adding more axis to the machine. You will need at least 5 axes to make this workable.

There are some industrial 3D printers with this technology but it will be some time before the low-cost market is at this stage.

Posted : 06/09/2019 2:44 pm
targodove liked
Sembazuru
(@sembazuru)
Prominent Member
RE: True 3D Printing

If you watch the video, Michael (the host) is able to pull it off only by removing portions of his extruder that help provide better prints (part cooling fan so overhangs and bridging will suck, and the bed sensor so automatic leveling/mesh grid leveling is not available). If you read the description for the video you can find links to the earlier art.

So, you can do this already with your Prusa printer, but you will have to remove useful features (good luck getting a good first layer w/o the mesh bed leveling). And you will have to compile your own copy of Slic3r from the fork repository in the video description. If you want to play with this, it actually might be better to use an older Prusa model that doesn't use the PINDA, or another printer completely (might work on a LulzBot after removing the part cooling duct work since the auto leveling is based on electrical nozzle contact with the corner bed fasteners).

See my (limited) designs on:
PrusaPrinters - https://www.prusaprinters.org/social/1448-sembazuru/prints
Thingiverse - https://www.thingiverse.com/Sembazuru/designs...
Posted : 06/09/2019 3:07 pm
targodove liked
--
 --
(@)
Illustrious Member
RE: True 3D Printing

Nice technology - but on a Prusa the maximum depth of features is about 2 mm if and only if the maximum angle is less than the 45 degrees of the nozzle and you don't mind ironed spots adjacent to the extrusion being laid down (E3D nozzles aren't pointy). 

Posted : 06/09/2019 4:55 pm
targodove liked
targodove
(@targodove)
New Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: True 3D Printing

I'm aware that it wouldn't be implementable with just a software update. It would also require some clever changes to the current form of the Mk3 and Mk3s. But it would be a nice feature/ability to have for a new printer (say the MK4?). It has been around since 2016 and with all the developments since then it is most certainly possible to implement.

It doesn't have to be perfected before being added to a Prusa Printer. Thats the whole point of releasing new printers. None of them are perfect. I'm sure most Prusa owners would appreciate the feature even if it isn't more capable than what was demoed in the video?

Posted : 06/09/2019 5:44 pm
targodove
(@targodove)
New Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: True 3D Printing
Posted by: bobstro
Posted by: targodove

Where can we request new features? I want to request Prusa consider implementing True 3D printing as described in this video: 

You mean the same feature that was discussed back in 2016? It's not new. It's not something that was just discovered. The problem is that it is limited to the height of your nozzle from any underside surface, which means that on a Prusa Mk3 with fan shroud and PINDA probe, it simply won't work without ripping apart the printer. Great for someone curious, but not recommended for every user. Even with a "suitable" printer, you're talking about 8mm or less of deviation between layers, and less-than-ideal nozzle angles. It's really cool, but not something trivial to implement on current consumer-grade FFF printers.

Who knows, somebody may try putting out a new printer with such capabilities, but with the race-to-the-bottom with low-end printers going on, I'd expect it to be expensive. It simply won't be profitable for a company to do all the R&D and testing to put out something cheap only to have it cloned in a few months.

I believe you can add comments to the already-long list of requests on Prusa's GitHub page.

I do have an address of some guy at the North Pole you could try... 🙂

Thanks. I added my own comment to the thread.

Posted : 06/09/2019 5:56 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
RE: True 3D Printing
Posted by: Sembazuru

So, you can do this already with your Prusa printer, but you will have to remove useful features (good luck getting a good first layer w/o the mesh bed leveling).

Actually you could have it do the mesh leveling and then add a pause in the print to allow you to remove the part fan, shroud, and PINDA. You'd have to be careful not to bump things around too much while doing it and it would certainly be a pain to have to then reinstall and calibrate after every print, but it should be doable with a decent (if not exactly matching a normal print) first layer.

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Stop SL1 tank leaks with a simple o-ring...
Posted : 06/09/2019 8:19 pm
Sembazuru
(@sembazuru)
Prominent Member
RE: True 3D Printing
Posted by: gnat
Posted by: Sembazuru

So, you can do this already with your Prusa printer, but you will have to remove useful features (good luck getting a good first layer w/o the mesh bed leveling).

Actually you could have it do the mesh leveling and then add a pause in the print to allow you to remove the part fan, shroud, and PINDA. You'd have to be careful not to bump things around too much while doing it and it would certainly be a pain to have to then reinstall and calibrate after every print, but it should be doable with a decent (if not exactly matching a normal print) first layer.

True. One could even in the g-code move the z up high to help give access and make sure the motors are all on to try to reduce the chance of manually moving the extruder. I doubt homing (at least homing the Z) would work, but maybe home the x and the y right after the pause.

See my (limited) designs on:
PrusaPrinters - https://www.prusaprinters.org/social/1448-sembazuru/prints
Thingiverse - https://www.thingiverse.com/Sembazuru/designs...
Posted : 07/09/2019 12:29 am
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