Three consecutive failed prints using new PLA
 

Three consecutive failed prints using new PLA  

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prusanewuser
(@prusanewuser)
Reputable Member

Hi, usually there is a silica gel pack put in the middle of Prusament filament rolls. However, when I opened a new box of PLA, I noticed that there was none. I tried to print three times and it all ended up failure due to filament not coming out while the printer continued to move thinking that filament were extruded. After each failure, I chose unload filament several times and the LCD kept asking me to pull out the filament even I did that already.  Each time I had to raise the temperature of the extruder by choosing PET or ASA to make the filament to come out. What is wrong here? Did I get a defective roll of filament? Is it better not to try to use it again as it might cause damage to the extruder?

Posted : 28/08/2020 3:49 pm
3Delight
(@3delight)
Moderator

What printer do you own?

Posted : 28/08/2020 3:51 pm
prusanewuser
(@prusanewuser)
Reputable Member

Prusa i3 MK3s. This is the first roll of filament that has such issue.

Posted : 28/08/2020 3:56 pm
prusanewuser
(@prusanewuser)
Reputable Member

Any possible cause? Is it safe to use this roll of filament? I worry that it may cog the nozzle/extruder.

Posted : 29/08/2020 1:58 pm
prusanewuser
(@prusanewuser)
Reputable Member

Our printer has problem with clogging whenever we use the three boxes of PLA that did not come with a bag of silica. After we sent them the QR codes, failed job photos and videos which clearly showed that they did not put the bag of silica in the PLA boxes as well as wasted over two weeks with them, a support agent denies the PLA has any issue and does not want to take any responsibility. Meanwhile, he continues to point to other possible issue and asked us to do test. Other PLA and PETG filaments have no problem. Only the three boxes which they did not include the silica in the box caused clogging.  

 

This is not very professional.

Posted : 06/09/2020 7:05 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @peter-c20

[...] What is wrong here? Did I get a defective roll of filament? Is it better not to try to use it again as it might cause damage to the extruder?

Normally, the worst that will happen is that your filament can absorb some moisture. Dry it out (55C for 3 hours should work for PLA) and it may be just fine. I've had even expensive filament print poorly out of the box, yet restore nicely when dried. Be careful drying as you don't want it to get too hot. A food dehydrator makes a good filament dryer and is always good to have available.

It's always possible you got some bad filament. It sounds like you've tried support, so try another spool (and perhaps brand) and move on if drying doesn't work. There's not a lot more you can do other than what support suggests (increasing temps, calibrating Live-Z, etc.).

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 06/09/2020 7:37 pm
prusanewuser
(@prusanewuser)
Reputable Member

@bobstro

I don't have an oven nor a food dehydrator. 

I complained again via the chat line and asked to talk to the manger. The same agent who responded by email and denied any issue with the filament replied. He wrote: "there is no manager available right now, but they'll want to further proof that the filament is indeed the cause of the issue and not a problem with the printer. If you try PETG instead of PLA heatcreep won't affect it"

First they said that light color filament caused the clogging. After wasting over 2 weeks with them to test other filaments (I opened two new boxes to do the testings), there is no progress about my case.

He never apologizes for the mistake they made. How do I reach the manager or the boss?

This post was modified 3 months ago 3 times by prusanewuser
Posted : 06/09/2020 8:58 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @peter-c20

[...] I don't have an oven nor a food dehydrator. 

I would recommend picking one up before too long. It would be a shame to throw away several $30 spools of filament that could be saved with a $100 dehydrator. You're bound to encounter this issue again.

I complained again via the chat line and asked to talk to the manger. The same agent who responded by email and denied any issue with the filament replied. He wrote: "there is no manager available right now, but they'll want to further proof that the filament is indeed the cause of the issue and not a problem with the printer. If you try PETG instead of PLA heatcreep won't affect it"

This is the 1st time you mentioned heat creep. Did support mention that previously? Are you printing in high ambient temps or in an enclosure near 40C? If so, PLA will soften prematurely and can cause all sorts of problems. It seems you've left some details out of your description.

First they said that light color filament caused the clogging. After wasting over 2 weeks with them to test other filaments (I opened two new boxes to do the testings), there is no progress about my case.

He never apologizes for the mistake they made. How do I reach the manager or the boss?

Don't know. This is a user-user support forum. I certainly don't have Jo's number.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 06/09/2020 9:34 pm
prusanewuser
(@prusanewuser)
Reputable Member

@bobstro

Any recommendation for good dehydrator? Won't it affect the internal property of the filament? Perhaps soften it and the mechanical properties of the resulting prints change?

Yesterday was the first time Support mentioned about heatcreep. We have contacted them over 10 times and no mention about this until yesterday. I guess this support agent was running out of excuses so he tried to throw all possible causes. Before those three PLA filament spools, I printed an entire spool of silver PLA and black PETG under the same condition and there was no clogging issue. As I told him, as soon as I put those PLA filament back, I get clogging issues. When changed to other filament, no clogging issues. When putting any of those three PLA back, I got clogging issue. So those defective filaments caused clogging. Anyway, even there were issues with the printer, the fact that they did not put a bag of silica in at least three filament boxes is their fault. Such fault caused many troubles to customer and they should so something to make up their mistake.

This post was modified 3 months ago by prusanewuser
Posted : 07/09/2020 4:17 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @peter-c20

[...] Any recommendation for good dehydrator?

Where are you located? Price and availability will vary considerably in different areas. 

I received a PrintDry unit as a Christmas gift a couple of years ago. It works well, but is overly expensive for what it is. There are several threads here on dehydrators that have been adapted to this purpose. Just about any food dehydrator that the spools fit into can work. You may have to trim away some of the tray material for the cheaper units. Look for a good temperature control and timer ideally.

Won't it affect the internal property of the filament? Perhaps soften it and the mechanical properties of the resulting prints change?

Not in my experience, at least with PLA, PETG and COPA filaments. You want to prevent filament from absorbing moisture in the first place, ideally. Store it in a sealed freezer bag with fresh desiccant when not in use. I've only had one brand of filament that doesn't restore well when dried.

Somebody referenced a NASA study that concluded that drying filament before printing significantly reduced the emission of ultra-fine particles during printing, which is a bonus. Unfortunately, I can't find a link to the actual NASA study results.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 07/09/2020 5:48 pm
Nabil
(@nabil)
Estimable Member

When was the spool manufactured? The spool I order from prusa are usually 2-3 days old before shipping. Unless you have the spools for a year I don't see how you can get enough moisture.  I have spool in open air for like 2-3 months and never had an issue.

Could be a problem with the spool but this can come from something else and you should keep chasing them.

I had an issue with a spool of PLA galaxy black and they have suggested that I should print it with higher temperature and less retraction which I refuse. 

If you have picture of an unopened spool without desiccant that's mean something went wrong in their process. 

It is definitely a quality concern and you shouldn't compromise.

 

 

 

 

Posted : 07/09/2020 8:12 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @nabil-m

When was the spool manufactured? The spool I order from prusa are usually 2-3 days old before shipping. Unless you have the spools for a year I don't see how you can get enough moisture.  I have spool in open air for like 2-3 months and never had an issue.

I have the same experience... most of the time. It's the times that environmental conditions are just right that you have to worry about.

Here's a print I was with Paramount PLA doing on December 31st:

Here's another from January 3rd:

Here's a print with the same spool after drying:

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 07/09/2020 8:19 pm
Nabil
(@nabil)
Estimable Member

@bobstro

The issue mentioned by @Peter-c20 is a clogged nozzle using a brand new spool.

What I see from your pictures of the 3rd is a successful print with a lot of stringing due probably from moisture. 

What I am trying to say is this can come from something else. 

Moisture itself can't be the main root cause and you just proved it.

Don't think me wrong, the dehydrator is a very good investment and I use it for my spools (especially PETG).  But I have never had an issue (moisture) with a brand new spool. 

I expect PRUSA or any other filament manufacturers to invest on equipement to control / check the moisture of every single spool. 

They can't just suggest us to buy a dehydrator or use a oven to dry the filaments...

 

Posted : 07/09/2020 9:21 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @nabil-m

[...] The issue mentioned by @Peter-c20 is a clogged nozzle using a brand new spool.

That is correct.

What I see from your pictures of the 3rd is a successful print with a lot of stringing due probably from moisture. 

That is also correct. I have had the same issues with brand new spools. I posted those pics to underscore the fact that -- while uncommon -- PLA can most decidedly absorb moisture. You previously wrote "Unless you have the spools for a year I don't see how you can get enough moisture." Those pictures are documenting the fact that it is absolutely possible for PLA to absorb moisture over a very short period. That spool was less than 60 days old at the time.

What I am trying to say is this can come from something else. 

No doubt. That is why I suggested OP work through the issues with support. However, OP has not tried drying the moisture and seems to have exhausted most other options, so it's worth trying. In any case, drying will do no harm and generally improves print quality.

Moisture itself can't be the main root cause and you just proved it.

That is not correct. I have had saturated spools cause all sorts of problems. My pictures show that PLA can absorb moisture, not what detrimental effects doing so can have other than finish quality. Depending how sodden it gets, feed issues are certainly a possible consequence.

OP seems to have worked through most of the basic issues (partial clog, etc.) with Prusa support.

Don't think me wrong, the dehydrator is a very good investment and I use it for my spools (especially PETG).  But I have never had an issue (moisture) with a brand new spool. 

I most certainly have. That is why I purchased a drier! 😀 Keeping filament dry is straightforward with a bit of diligence, but once it's saturated -- particularly if it ships that way -- it needs to be dried.

I expect PRUSA or any other filament manufacturers to invest on equipement to control / check the moisture of every single spool. 

They can't just suggest us to buy a dehydrator or use a oven to dry the filaments...

Prusa hasn't done so. I have done so. This is a user-user forum, and I do not work for Prusa! OP has worked through the issue with Prusa support and is getting no satisfaction. An obvious step is to next try drying the filament. I am trying to help OP avoid tossing the filament that Prusa has indicated they will not replace.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 07/09/2020 9:29 pm
prusanewuser
(@prusanewuser)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @nabil-m

@bobstro

The issue mentioned by @Peter-c20 is a clogged nozzle using a brand new spool.

What I see from your pictures of the 3rd is a successful print with a lot of stringing due probably from moisture. 

What I am trying to say is this can come from something else. 

Moisture itself can't be the main root cause and you just proved it.

Don't think me wrong, the dehydrator is a very good investment and I use it for my spools (especially PETG).  But I have never had an issue (moisture) with a brand new spool. 

I expect PRUSA or any other filament manufacturers to invest on equipement to control / check the moisture of every single spool. 

They can't just suggest us to buy a dehydrator or use a oven to dry the filaments...

 

I bought them about a year ago and stored them in my apartment. My city in North America is not humid. Completely unopened in brand new original condition. Who knows they did not put a bag of silica in them? If the quality of filament could go down even in brand new unopened condition, they should put an expiration date just like foods. In any case, because of their fault, the lifespan of three boxes of filament shortened and I cannot use them due to constant cogging. Because of the tests they requested, I opened two new boxes before I finished the first one. I asked the agent to tell the manager to contact me two days ago. No contact from them. Obviously that agent does not respect customer's request.

This post was modified 3 months ago by prusanewuser
Posted : 08/09/2020 2:25 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member

@peter-c20

I do not think there is an expiration date.  You can restore the filament with a simple trip of a few hours in a food dehydrator.  You can buy one for less than three rolls of filament.  

Posted : 08/09/2020 2:37 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member

I think we've moved beyond somebody earnestly looking for help and have moved into counterproductive complaining. Drying the filament out is a logical next step. If OP is not willing to do that, there's nothing that anybody here can do to fix the problem. This is a user-user support forum. That's it. 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 08/09/2020 2:58 pm
prusanewuser
(@prusanewuser)
Reputable Member

For food dehydrator, what are the temperature and timer ranges that I should be looking for? I went to three big local stores but only Walmart has one food dehydrator. The layer in each level is too thin to fit a spool filament. One product that has been recommended in this forum is out of stock in Amazon. The other seemingly good ones are over $100.

Posted : 09/09/2020 4:31 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Famed Member

@peter-c20

Dehydrator settings and time:

  1. PLA,50°C (122°F),> 3h
  2. ABS,65°C (149°F),> 3h
  3. PETG/CPE,65°C (149°F),> 3h
  4. Nylon,70°C (158°F),> 12h
  5. Desiccant,65°C (149°F),> 3h
  6. PVA,45°C (113°F),> 10h
  7. TPU/TPE,55°C (131°F),> 4h
  8. ASA,60°C (140°F),> 4h
  9. PP,55°C (131°F),> 6h
  10. HIPS,60°C (140°F),> 4h
  11. PC,70°C (158°F),> 6h
  12. PEEK,70°C (158°F),> 6h
Posted : 09/09/2020 5:14 pm
prusanewuser
(@prusanewuser)
Reputable Member

I read that somebody got an inexpensive dehydrator and the temperature accuracy is so poor that it affected the filament negatively.

Posted : 09/09/2020 5:48 pm
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