Suggestion on next printers - different height printer versions to choose from
 
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Slazds
(@slazds)
New Member
Suggestion on next printers - different height printer versions to choose from

I would suggest to have multiple printer heights to choose from (2 or 3 different height versions).

My prints are never higher than 2cm.

Would be great if I could choose to buy, for example, a 10 cm or 15 cm lower printer than the current ones, which would take less vertical space, therefore I could put more printers one above the other on a shelf.
I also think that the printer would then be even more rigid, and the price for it could also be some €uros lower (less frame material, shorter lead screws etc.)
And if anything - upgrade kits (motors with longer lead screws, frame material, rods) could also be sold, if anyone decides to have a higher printer afterall.

Posted : 16/10/2021 2:48 pm
RedDawg
(@reddawg)
Reputable Member
Easy peezy

Buy (a) Mini(s) and cut the Z axis down. Probably get it down to about 50-60 mm above the bed.

1. "Creativity is the sudden cessation of stupidity." and "Any problem can be solved with the materials in the room." -Edwin Land, inventor of the Polaroid Land Camera. 2. "If I can't fix it, it isn't broken." -Me....
Posted : 16/10/2021 5:48 pm
Slazds
(@slazds)
New Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Need it without having to do any modifications to the original build

Although a good idea, still mini has a smaller print surface and other problems that I don't need in a print farm.
And don't want to do any modifications on the printer myself. Need full warranty, resellability, and as I am aiming also for the Prusa XL size print surface, would be great if XL could come in different height modifications when it becomes available. Could have multiple XL's one above the other. Don't want it to take half a square cubicmeter of room if it's only going to print max 2cm high objects 😀

This post was modified 2 months ago by Slazds
Posted : 16/10/2021 7:06 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
I'd certainly like the option!
Posted by: @slazds

[...] Would be great if I could choose to buy, for example, a 10 cm or 15 cm lower printer than the current ones, which would take less vertical space, therefore I could put more printers one above the other on a shelf.

I know it doesn't suit everybody, but I absolutely would prefer to have a larger bed area with a lower Z height. I love having 300x300mm of bed space on my Sidewinder, but that 400mm height is wobbly and I've never used more than 250mm of it. The ability to select from Z heights and benefit from a more stable printer is something I'd definitely like. If modular and easily swapped out, so much the better.

I definitely don't expect anybody to develop such a product, mind you. The trend is definitely towards bigger all-around.

I also think that the printer would then be even more rigid, and the price for it could also be some €uros lower (less frame material, shorter lead screws etc.)
And if anything - upgrade kits (motors with longer lead screws, frame material, rods) could also be sold, if anyone decides to have a higher printer afterall.

It would probably cost more, but be more flexible. Looking at my Sidewinder, the 4020 frame does look like I could lower the crossbar without too much fuss. It won't reduce the vertical footprint without cutting, but it would definitely be more rigid for the vast majority of my prints. 

That said, I can't imagine FFF is going to be state-of-the-art for much longer. 

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 16/10/2021 7:35 pm
Slazds liked
BogdanH
(@bogdanh)
Honorable Member

Agree with @bobstro. If there would exist "low" version of some printer, most would probably decide for full height option (by thinking "one never knows when needed") -I think that would apply for most consumer. Especially because "slim" version probably wouldn't be much cheaper, if at all. Because actual market price difference of frame parts (Alu-extrusions, rods, etc.) is negligible size wise.

MK3S BEAR for example, is cheap & simple modification, where one could easy reduce Z-height. However, not many decided to do that, I guess. Ok, would be probably bad idea, because MK3S isn't some big/tall printer.
But yeah, when we talk about large bed area printers, then height is many times a big waste of space. In this case many would probably decide for low-Z version, even price difference would be small compared to full size version.

Hey bobstro.. you though about to put angle grinder in action and cut top 20cm of your sidewinder? 😎 

[Mini+] [MK3S+BEAR]...
Posted : 16/10/2021 10:05 pm
Yveske
(@yveske)
Estimable Member
Two in one

I was wondering if it would be easy/possible to take a Rat Rig V-Core 3 and add a second XY gantry and build plate in the lower half. The frame and vertical linear rails could serve both halves, only the threaded rods should be halved (or new ones bought) and driven by separate motors (one set from below, one set from above). Feeding filament to the bottom half could be tricky though...

 
Having problems with bed adhesion every morning......
Posted : 17/10/2021 7:25 am
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Noble Member

That said, I can't imagine FFF is going to be state-of-the-art for much longer. 

Ant thoughts about the next mainstream 3d printing technology?

Posted : 17/10/2021 12:15 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
No grand insights, just experience
Posted by: @towlerg
Ant thoughts about the next mainstream 3d printing technology?

Nothing other than experience. I'm no pundit, but I've been around a long time in terms of technology. I feel that the current state of 3D printing is still like the early days of home computer printers.

  • We're just out of the 9 pin dot matrix tractor fed state. My 1st computer printer didn't even have lowercase descenders. The Mk3 is maybe entering the 24 pin "almost letter quality" phase. Does anybody remember the badass full-page printer from Brewster's Millions?
  • Resin technologies are the "letter quality" daisy wheel equivalent. Nice quality, but a pain in the ass to work with.
  • There will be misses that have limited usability like thermal.
  • Next up is whatever is the equivalent of the laser printer.
  • For a few years, it'll be clunky to work with (equivalent to feeding in individual sheets of paper).
  • At some point, it all becomes a commodity, easy to use, and affordable (current dot matrix/cheap color laser stage).
My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 17/10/2021 7:56 pm
StanHD liked
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Pizza box printer
Posted by: @bogdanh

[...] Hey bobstro.. you though about to put angle grinder in action and cut top 20cm of your sidewinder? 😎 

Lost my 1st post apparently. Sorry if this is a repost.

Unfortunately, wood and metalworking are my kryptonite. I should ask my neighbors if any of them have a workshop set up.

The Sidewinder design is similar (I think) to the Full Bear frame:

If I cut the bottom of the vertical 4020 rails, I could easily permanently lower the X gantry height. Better would be to drill 2 holes on each vertical rail at the desired lower height for stability while preserving the higher capability if ever desired.

If I ran a farm printing lower prints (e.g., tabletop scenery), I might consider a rack of "pizza box" printers with larger beds but lower heights just for the density.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 17/10/2021 8:05 pm
Slazds and BogdanH liked
BogdanH
(@bogdanh)
Honorable Member

 

Posted by: @bobstro

The Sidewinder design is similar (I think) to the Full Bear frame:

If I cut the bottom of the vertical 4020 rails, I could easily permanently lower the X gantry height. Better would be to drill 2 holes on each vertical rail at the desired lower height for stability while preserving the higher capability if ever desired.

Yes, I think frames on most "normal" printers are built in similar ways.
If you have serious thoughts about "pizza printer" (made me laugh), then I think, it would be more reasonable and less risky, if you would keep original parts.
Parts you would need (2040 and rods) are cheap enough to play with (cut & drill, that is). And if something goes wrong, you still have original parts.

[Mini+] [MK3S+BEAR]...
Posted : 17/10/2021 9:18 pm
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Noble Member
Out of the blue

but I've been around a long time in terms of technology

As you are perhaps the most knowledgeable person on this board, thats why I asked. So to paraphrase you don't see incremental change (can FDM ever becoming the basis of a zero maintenance consumer product?) but something out of the blue.

Posted : 18/10/2021 11:16 am
Yveske
(@yveske)
Estimable Member
Half height

Contacted RatRig for a half height 500x500x300 printer

Hi Yves,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Yes, this is possible - incidentally, almost all the V-Core 3 in our print farm are exactly 500x500x300, for the same reason.

To make such an order, simply order a standard size machine (500x500x500 in this example) and then reply to your order confirmation e-mail requesting a height customization to Z=300. We will adjust your bill of materials accordingly, but no price adjustment will take place.

We will be here if you need us,

 
Having problems with bed adhesion every morning......
Posted : 18/10/2021 11:38 am
bobstro liked
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Printing a "pixel" at a time is simply too slow as print sizes increase
Posted by: @towlerg

As you are perhaps the most knowledgeable person on this board, thats why I asked.

Oh gosh no. Lots of folks here smarter on 3D printing than I am! I just keep notes.

So to paraphrase you don't see incremental change (can FDM ever becoming the basis of a zero maintenance consumer product?) but something out of the blue.

A single tiny nozzle on a single extruder just doesn't scale beyond a certain size. You want a smaller nozzle for detail, but that works against larger prints. Even a 1mm nozzle is small when you're looking at really large printers. The current state of the art for FFF is like printing with a 1 pin dot matrix, 1 dot/pixel at a time. With the overhead of a mechanical assembly, it's terribly slow.

If nothing else, I could see a neutral filament being melted into a small reservoir, then additives such as color added (similar to inkjet) on the way out the nozzles. An array of nozzles (similar to our old 9 pin print heads) could then be moved. I'm not saying this is a good idea, but we've been stuck with a single nozzle for a long time now. The resin technologies that print a layer at a time are a definite step forward, but resin is way too much of a mess to deal with to truly scale up to mass market appeal, IMO.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 18/10/2021 3:51 pm
BogdanH
(@bogdanh)
Honorable Member

 

Posted by: @bobstro

The resin technologies that print a layer at a time are a definite step forward, but resin is way too much of a mess to deal with to truly scale up to mass market appeal, IMO.

 

-agree fully.
Yes, FDM is old tech and hasn't changed much since then. With all weaknesses that FDM has, it's still most suitable for home use: printer is simple to handle, filament is relative cheap and results are acceptable.
Of course FDM printers could be much better by now. But FDM, as we know it, is based on community projects. There are no big company names behind, which would innovate & provide the technology. Our printers are made of parts on open market and software is mostly work of enthusiastic programmers. Right now, that's the only way to keep prices reasonable and printers affordable to average Joe.

Just sharing my thoughts...

[Mini+] [MK3S+BEAR]...
Posted : 18/10/2021 6:23 pm
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