Review: Dragon Hotend  

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jmillerfo
(@jmillerfo)
Active Member

@photogad

I don't know whether or not the green filament in the photos below are vibrant enough but this was as bright a filament that I have on hand.  The higher temperatures show a fair amount of stringing at the post and some up curl at the left side tips.  There is virtually no curl at the lower temps but there is minor stringing at the post if you look closely.  I almost did not see the stringing at the lower temps until I shot the pictures against a white background and used flash to get better illumination.

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Posted : 27/02/2021 6:52 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@jmillerfo

This is consitent with my testing.  

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 27/02/2021 3:07 pm
gabrielcr78
(@gabrielcr78)
Active Member

Hello wanted to share an update in my research, i tried a LOT of configs in prusaslicer and cura... no success on removing stringing, also tried an e3dv6 and different nozzles on the dragon (BTW, at the end, the hardened steel nozzle was the one that gave the less stringing with those slicers)

I must say that i haven't used simplify 3d in a long time, mainly cause it has been falling behind.. but in this case it just resolved the issue in the very first print. why? i have no clue! i initially tought t was the "coast at the end" feature but it woks even if i disable it...

 

anyway i'm happy i think i'll use this simplify 3d profile when i print miniatures and will use prusa slicer when i print in ABS.

 

 

Posted : 03/03/2021 11:07 pm
Photogad
(@photogad)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @gabrielcr78

Hello wanted to share an update in my research, i tried a LOT of configs in prusaslicer and cura... no success on removing stringing, also tried an e3dv6 and different nozzles on the dragon (BTW, at the end, the hardened steel nozzle was the one that gave the less stringing with those slicers)

I must say that i haven't used simplify 3d in a long time, mainly cause it has been falling behind.. but in this case it just resolved the issue in the very first print. why? i have no clue! i initially tought t was the "coast at the end" feature but it woks even if i disable it...

 

anyway i'm happy i think i'll use this simplify 3d profile when i print miniatures and will use prusa slicer when i print in ABS.

 

 

Can you try Cura and let me know if it helps too? I did and it didn't fix my stringing vs. PrusaSlicer.

Posted : 04/03/2021 4:00 am
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey)
Active Member

I just had a massive jam on my MK3 with the Phaetus Dragon. I was printing a 95A TPU, and jammed on a unload/load sequence through the MMU. I ended up having to tear it all apart, and found a small chunk of filament melted between the lower frame and the upper groove mount. There is a small groove in the top of the frame where I am guessing the PTFE is supposed to seat. Not sure if my PTFE wasn't all the way down, or iif it got pulled up in the jam? But I ended up having to cut the PTFE and collet clamp out of the groove mount to clear it! There was more material that got jammed up in there as well. So I am thinking it is best to cut the PTFE with the groove mount off the frame, and make sure 1mm or so is poking out, and in full contact with the frame. 

Posted : 04/03/2021 8:02 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@hackmonkey

That is the way mine is.  I made sure the PTFE tube was seated against that edge.  

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 04/03/2021 10:51 am
gabrielcr78
(@gabrielcr78)
Active Member
Posted by: @photogad Can you try Cura and let me know if it helps too? I did and it didn't fix my stringing vs. PrusaSlicer.

like I said, i ran tests on both, cura and prusa slicer.. did not figure out how to fix it. but with S3D 0 stringing at all.. i was almost upset i had paid the license of S3d for having used it for a few months and then not use it any more for the lasts almost 2 years, but now i'm actually happy i have it, at least for miniatures 😀

Posted : 04/03/2021 2:13 pm
haddock
(@haddock)
New Member

Just got the phaetus dragon. Replacement is easy. Got it since the heatbreak solidity of the E3D is just a joke.

After carefully setting up the first layer, I suspected over extrusion. I had some strange result on 3D benchy.

So I used some thingiverse clamp testing to determine the flow I needed for PLA. It is down to 0.72...  very low. I will carry on with some tweaking.

Posted : 27/03/2021 9:34 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

Tweaking is required for all new parts.

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 27/03/2021 10:32 pm
haddock
(@haddock)
New Member

@cwbullet

Thanks Chuck, did you experience a low extrusion factor like this?

Posted : 28/03/2021 8:56 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@haddock

I did have to adjust my setting to include the extrusion or flow rate.

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 28/03/2021 4:34 pm
Hillinator
(@hillinator)
New Member

@juanfra

Hi, I just installed the Phaetus Dragon HF hotend onto my MK3S+ MMU2S. I am having issues with the filament changes in MMU printing. The new filament coming in almost always seems to get hung up which triggers a re-try several times until ultimately deciding an MMU failure. Even when the filament does load correctly, the nozzle sits still during the load and causes a massive blob on the purge tower. This, I think, is due to the heat break inside diameter being so precise and close to that of the filament, that when the new filament enters the heat break it causes positive air pressure on the left over filament in the nozzle due to the new filament sealing off the heat break opening so well, forcing it to extrude. The blob then causes the nozzle to crash every time it tries to wipe in that area which is getting very frustrating. 

 

You say you made no changes to your MMU settings other than the double cooling passes and it is working just fine?? are you not experiencing the same blob issue that I am when a new filament is loaded? is there some way to adjust the g-code to make it wipe as soon as the IR sensor senses the new filament so that I can avoid the blobbing due to it sitting still? 

 

Any help would be appreciated, I love this hotend and would love for it to work with the MMU2S setup!

Posted : 31/03/2021 3:47 am
Hillinator
(@hillinator)
New Member

@joantabb

joan, I have the high flow Phaetus dragon hotend. If the melt zone is longer/ starts closer to the extruder  gears, how can I update this value in my slicer /or firmware? is there some sort of info on this? It works great in single material mode, although during initial filament load it plops a pretty good blob on the print bed, I'm assuming this is because the melt zone starts closer to the extruder gears than the stock hot end, so the filament is loaded past the start of the melt zone before any wiping begins. When it comes to filament changes during MMU printing, this becomes a nuisance because the blob forces the nozzle to crash every single time it tries to do a filament change.  

Posted : 31/03/2021 4:09 am
Dr. Mabuse
(@dr-mabuse)
Active Member

Hello,

i have been following the discussion but i am still not sure if i should go for a dragon upgrade or a Mosquito Clone (no funds for original one) upgrade. Anyone here is using a dragon or Mosquito with an bondtech extruder upgrade? If yes, which print head model are you using?

cheers,

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Dr. Mabuse
Posted : 02/04/2021 7:13 am
jmillerfo
(@jmillerfo)
Active Member

I have a Prusa MK2.5S and MMU2S.  In general I like the idea of the MMU2 but found the operation unreliable largely due to poor filament end formation after unload which prevented successful reload.  The failure was as often as 1 out of 3 filament changes for PLA and 1 out of 10 on PTEG.  In addition, large prints often failed after 10 hours or so.  The latter was traced to heat creep which may have also been a factor in the MMU2 filament change failures.  After researching the E3D hot end designs (Standard and Prusa version) I came to believe that the design was insufficient to produce reliable results in a MMU2 environment.  This lead to a search for a different hot end.

I started with the E3D Hemera.  This is a complete replacement of the Prusa hot end including Stepper Motor, Bondtech gears, and heat break.  I like many of the Hemera design aspects including the very short all metal filament path.  I found the operation very reliable if I loaded the filament manually but autoloading via MMU2S often resulted in filament jams.  I think the jams were a result of the change in the filament path lengths.  I spend considerable time trying to change the lengths in the microcode using examples from the Bondtech site but ultimately suspended that effort when I was introduced to the Slice Mosquito hot end that could be made a drop end with minor modifications to the Prusa E3D mount.

After a lot of research I opted for the Phaetus Dragon for the following reasons:

  1. Cost - Half the Mosquito 
  2. E3D like Heat Block which preserved the Heater and Thermistor installation as opposed to  having to use Boron Nitride Paste.

In the end the cost was a minor plus in the Dragon vs Mosquito tradeoff.  If the mosquito had a more conventional heat block I would have chosen the Mosquito because I believe their overall design is superior.  For me the cost of the hot end is immaterial (within reason) if the assembly results in an highly reliable MMU2 operation.

I am happy to report since the installation of the Dragon, I have had no MMU2 load failures.  This includes several 5 color test articles which resulted in over 10,000+ changes.  After the tests, I put the printer into production and have had flawless operation to date.

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Posted : 02/04/2021 1:41 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@jmillerfo

Good to know.  I order another MMU2S.  I will keep this in mind.  

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by cwbullet
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 02/04/2021 1:47 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@dr-mabuse

I have used both and both work well.   The mosquito requires an adaptor.  

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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 02/04/2021 6:38 pm
jmillerfo
(@jmillerfo)
Active Member

While the Dragon could be installed as a direct replacement I created an adapter that positively captures the Dragon rotationally so that Nozzles can be changed with one hand.  See:

Triangle Labs Dragon Drop In Hot End by jmillerfo | Download free STL model | PrusaPrinters

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Posted : 02/04/2021 7:16 pm
Dr. Mabuse
(@dr-mabuse)
Active Member
Posted by: @cwbullet

@dr-mabuse

I have used both and both work well.   The mosquito requires an adaptor.  

I am planing on replacing the print-head with one designed for Mosquito or Dragon, not for the V6 hotend.

Posted : 03/04/2021 1:21 am
Dr. Mabuse
(@dr-mabuse)
Active Member

@jmillerfo

Thank you. I did save this one already to my Prusa-Modding collection.

Posted : 03/04/2021 1:51 am
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