PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.
 
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PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.  

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vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

Had an interesting experience today, so it's storytime. I like to think I've nailed down bed adhesion understanding for my printer. Z-value is perfect (layer measures 0.20 on the dot, and feels perfectly smooth with no oversquished ridges or undersquished valleys, and I've run off oodles of PLA prints on my textured sheet with nary a problem, and without bothering to clean the sheet between runs. Some of the larger ones stick about as well as PETG does.

Changed filaments today to print a few replicates of a different part. Filament would simply NOT stick to the sheet. (Note: this was another of the 5 filaments I have living in a drybox under the printer. So the spool is essentially untouched by human hands after opening, unless I need to change it out.)

I'd done many prints with this roll already and was about 3/4 of the way through. 

OK, maybe it's time for a scrub. Took the sheet to the sink and gave it a good scrubbing with dish soap/hot water (yes, I'm familiar with the rules here)

No dice. I get one print off, the next part fails to stick all the way around during the first layer perimeter. 

Well then. Bust out the IPA and a clean cotton ball. Still no dice. 

Swap to my smooth sheet (which I scrubbed for good measure at the same time as the PC one) Again, one print, next one fails to adhere, again in the same spot. IPA: No dice. 

Right. Time for something a little stronger. Gave the smooth sheet a good scrubbing with acetone. One print comes out, next one fails again.

More IPA. Still won't stick, and nothing visible on the sheet itself at all, no streaks, no smudges or fingerprints. 

At this point, I know the bed is clean, and the first layer is good, I rechecked and tried lowering it to the point of over-squish. Still no adhesion. 

That leaves one common factor across sheets, cleanings and z-tweaks - the filament. 

Change to a different roll, reset the Z value to what it was before I started messing with it to be sure it was good. Boom, instant stickage, no sign of lifting anywhere. 

TL;DR: If you know your sheet is clean and Z is good, and it still won't stick... try a different filament. 

Posted : 22/01/2020 9:08 pm
Nikolai
(@nikolai)
Noble Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

Can confirm that. I had similar experience with SUNLU PLA+. Looks like some manufacturer are adding some kind of oil for better printing results.

Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram...
Posted : 22/01/2020 10:42 pm
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Topic starter answered:
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

Funny you should mention SunLu, that happens to be the exact brand I was having issues with.... PLA+ too.

Posted : 22/01/2020 11:23 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

I have not tried their PLA +.  I think I have a spool.  I will give it a try.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 22/01/2020 11:25 pm
fheatherz
(@fheatherz)
Eminent Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

I could not get SunLu to stick for anything, finally returned what I could and I use the rest on my creality - for whatever reason it will stick there but not on the Prusa. 

Posted : 23/01/2020 1:05 am
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Topic starter answered:
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

Interesting. I'll give it a go on some build surfaces I got with overture filament. They're not PEI and have a buildtak like texture to them. I bought a plain steel sheet for experimenting and stuck one on, just haven't used it yet.

 

What's funny is I've printed about 2 rolls worth of the stuff without issue, so far it's just the last quarter of this black roll giving me grief. It's a shame because it prints beautifully otherwise, there's very little diameter variation. 

I agree there must be some kind of additive in it; it also has a tendency to steam if left in the hotend for any amount of time or if pushed through at a high rate.

 

 

Posted : 23/01/2020 2:00 am
Nikolai
(@nikolai)
Noble Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.
Posted by: @vintagepc

I agree there must be some kind of additive in it; it also has a tendency to steam if left in the hotend for any amount of time or if pushed through at a high rate.

Exactly. Saw the same thing.

Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram...
Posted : 23/01/2020 2:13 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

Mine is black and it clearly does not stick as well.  I am going to bed and will test more next week.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 23/01/2020 2:45 am
Nameless2nd
(@nameless2nd)
Active Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

Last weekend I completed a bigger print (10cm x 10cm area, lots of supports) with black SUNLU PLA+. Textured sheet, cleaned with 99% IPA. No  scrubbing, no glue, not one corner lifted. Maybe there's some variation between different filament batches?

Posted : 23/01/2020 7:04 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

@nameless2nd

Must be.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 23/01/2020 10:42 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

@charles-h13

I know it would be a pain in the bum, but is there any mileage in printing the first layer in a different filament, then swapping, just to make use of the remaining filament?

 

Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 23/01/2020 11:32 am
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Topic starter answered:
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

Not a bad idea. And I'd say there's not just variation between batches but within a single batch. It makes no sense otherwise why this would start most of the way through a roll for me.

Posted : 23/01/2020 12:26 pm
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Topic starter answered:
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

Just occurred to me I have a sample of Vision Miner's adhesion product on the way; I might give that a crack with this roll to see if it at least helps the issue.

Posted : 23/01/2020 12:53 pm
Clemens M.
(@clemens-m)
Prominent Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

@vintagepc

Do you know how long ago you printed with exactly that spool of material - or how old it is already? Moisture could be one reason (but you explained it is/was stored in a drybox). I can imagine, that there are ingredients in the material, which could change the "printability", when the age increases.

Trying an other material for the first layer is a great idea - will try that next time I have a sticking issue !!!

Best regards,
Clemens Mödlin

Posted : 23/01/2020 4:23 pm
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Topic starter answered:
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

@clemens-m

Not overly long ago, I'd run off a few parts in mid to late December with it, so it's not like it's been sitting around for Months. IIRC I bought it in October.

Posted : 23/01/2020 4:29 pm
fheatherz
(@fheatherz)
Eminent Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

I used both Orange and black SunLu right out of the vacuum sealed package, could not get it to stick on the smooth sheet. If you read the amazon reviews, seems like mostly Prusa users complaining about the same problem. It worked with my heavily hairsprayed creality bed so I just use the stuff I could not return on that printer. 🙂 

Posted : 23/01/2020 4:33 pm
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Topic starter answered:
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

I have 2" rolls of blue tape and kapton as well; I should see how it sticks on that. Lots of non-PEI options I didn't immediately realize I had!

Posted : 23/01/2020 4:58 pm
Nikolai
(@nikolai)
Noble Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

There is no reason for me to stick to this brand. They're using some additive and maybe the amount of that is sometimes ok and sometimes causing issue on PEI sheet. Once I saw the smoke coming out for this filament, it was a clear no-go for me to buy any other roll.

Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram...
Posted : 23/01/2020 7:19 pm
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Topic starter answered:
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.

Ditto, I'm just looking for an option to use up what I have already. I doubt I'll buy any more.

Posted : 23/01/2020 7:29 pm
Nikolai
(@nikolai)
Noble Member
RE: PSA: Do *NOT* overlook your filament as a source of adhesion issues.
Posted by: @vintagepc

Ditto, I'm just looking for an option to use up what I have already. I doubt I'll buy any more.

My solution was to bump the temp to 220-230 for the first layer, slow down to ~10-20mm/s and apply some glue stick or ABS juice to the sheet.

Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram...
Posted : 23/01/2020 7:50 pm
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