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Barry Windsor
(@barry-windsor)
Active Member
Problem after problem

Good afternoon,

Pleases don't think I am "knocking" Prusa but...............

I really do wish I had never bought this machine! I have no doubt they are fantastic printers but the one I have is an absolute nightmare.

Since buying it has cost me way over £100. I have had 4 blocked nozzles and on removing the nozzle for the 4th time to clear it I broke the heater wire. SO....I bought a new heater and thermister. Have you ever tried removing the screw holding the heater in the aluminium block?????? A complete mis-match. Steel screw into aluminium doesn't work.

I bought a complete new hot end. Fine! It printed for a few days but now.......after about 5 minutes printing the nozzle suddenly lifts about 1" from the bed. print failed! then if I can get it to print further it suddenly lifts the nozzles and tries to print from the centre of the bed to the right. So it crashes into the upright frame.

A friend of mine recently bought a Balco from Aldi. He took it out of the box, assembled, I think about 8 screws, asked it to print and away it went. Yes, I agree, the print quality was poor BUT IT PRINTED FROM THE BOX!

Just how do I get any decent prints from my Prusa i3 MK3?

Barry.

 

 

I have had a blocked nozzle 4 times. On the 4th time of removing the nozzle

Posted : 25/01/2020 2:05 pm
neal.p
(@neal-p)
Eminent Member
RE: Problem after problem

I am self taught on only Prusa. I have no friends who do this until just 2 weeks ago. Yes, I get problems every step of the way, too.

 

Here are some tips I figured out. Use at your own discretion. I don't always make the best decisions.

My first big problem is how I bent the nozzle turning on the factory assembled printer. Changing that was good. Learning how to set the Pinda should not be ignored.

I spent a day using Raspberry Pi weather map to get better bed flatness. It took awhile to find M3 bolts and nuts locally. I found them at Lowes. I use them to replace all heat bed stand offs except the one in the center, adjusting each screw with the smaller nut up against the underside of the bed in opposition. There is a youtube video that taught me how it is done.

Over the years I collected decent weight steel bars. I found bolts that fit nicely in the T slot aluminum extruded bars that are the base of the whole printer frame. Now my printer is actually flush mounted to a MDF table that is supported by that weight. I think this removes vibration and jolting. The down side is maybe I will wear out belts more frequently because that energy has to go somewhere. In my mind I was trying to make my printer sturdy like the table that would be holding pieces for a machinist to mill.

My nozzles clog alot. I fell for the idea to use titanium heat break. But I learned later you can't because Prusa needs two different diameters to accommodate filament changing. So, don't do that. I clear nozzle clogs between prints by holding a filament into the extruder and moving the axis for pulling it in. I let it heat up first and most of the clog runs out with gravity over time.

I tried various 3M sprays. I tried covering the steel sheet with contact paper, heating it, then peel it off hot to apply adhesive on the bed. The best solution I heard is Aqua Net hair spray. That is what I use now.

Keep your bed clean with denatured alcohol. No finger prints. I also sometimes wash it in the dishwasher. I practice wearing latex gloves.

I am printing spare parts in case one of my pieces need replaced. These require only one color and gives me practice. The multicolor needs me to sit there and offer assistance if there is a problem.

As soon as I post this, I'll think of more. I may add more comments.

 

This post was modified 2 years ago by neal.p
Posted : 25/01/2020 7:26 pm
Barry Windsor
(@barry-windsor)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Problem after problem

@neal-p

Thanks for your reply.

 I had a problem with print not sticking to the bed. I now turn down the speed on the first layer to about 75% on the screen. This massively increases the print time but at least it stays on!

my biggest problem at the minute is the extruder suddenly jumping up about an inch while still trying to print. Then it will suddenly try to print from the centre out. Crash!

 

Posted : 25/01/2020 7:36 pm
neal.p
(@neal-p)
Eminent Member
RE: Problem after problem

@bwindsor95

I had trouble when my extruder harness was getting too close to the controller box on the left hand side. If it hits that cover, you crash. In my opinion, the design of the printer is for shipping. The controller box is not needed to be there. I put it on the table I built, out of the way. 

I really need to make my own wire harnesses for that. Everything it too short to move stuff where I would like it to be. The power supply is a heat source. I also want that under the heat bed because the heat from it can ruin ABS prints.

 

Another wild guess is your PINDA is weirdly believing it is close to the steel print bed. Something makes it think it is lower than it really is, so it moves zero up an inch higher than it is supposed to be. But don't take my word for it. I am just guessing

This post was modified 2 years ago 2 times by neal.p
Posted : 25/01/2020 7:45 pm
Barry Windsor
(@barry-windsor)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Problem after problem

@neal-p

I have never tried any other printing medium. Too many problems with PLA and too much frustration to even attempt anything else.

Posted : 25/01/2020 7:50 pm
neal.p
(@neal-p)
Eminent Member
RE: Problem after problem

I hear you but I put more effort into it. I was successful printing my concept and reached the conclusion that my ultimate limitation is capacity. I wish I could make you an offer to buy your printer, but I'm broke for the next few months. 

My immediate task in front of me is to build a 3D printer farm so I can produce and sell my product. I will be in the market to buy your used printer if you still have it in May. I could cannibalize it for parts.  I am designing a Prusa modified frame clone that can be built on heavy duty shelving for all the axis framing.

It might be a good idea for Prusa to offer insurance to buy your printer back if you are dissatisfied. Then Prusa could sell the used parts to us if we need them for building printer farms.

This post was modified 2 years ago by neal.p
Posted : 25/01/2020 8:21 pm
Crawlerin
(@crawlerin)
Prominent Member
RE: Problem after problem

I am sorry to hear you have such problems. Did you buy pre-assembled or kit? I can tell you that buying upgrades like titanium hotends won't help if there's some other fundamental issue.

You mention you have bad bed adhesion. Solve that first. Do you have smooth or powder coated sheet? Either way, wash it with dish soap (don't use sponge, it's greasy), thoroughly rinse with plenty of hot water, and let dry on heated bed. Then use >91% Isopropyl Alcohol (don't use that while hot, it will evaporate sooner than you manage to spread it). Please, don't put sheets into dish washer - it contains additives like glass shine that definitely do not help adhesion, and salt will make steel sheets rust. Dish soap, IPA and not touching surface is enough.

Adjust your Z properly. Just in case, do the pre-flight checks and adjustments as described in manual and run calibration wizard again. If you updated firmware to 3.8.something from previous version, it may be good idea to do factory reset due to some changes in how it stores data in eeprom.

If your printer lifts head mid-print and parks to the edge of axis the returns, most probably it detected crash and tries to recover. Go to information about printer and check how many crashes were detected. Check whether bearings slide smoothly on rods, or it binds somewhere and makes it hard to move. May not be a bad idea to lubricate those while at it. Check belt tension and adjust belts as necessary. Check grub screws on motor shafts.

What material you print with? What kind of filament? Have you tried some other? Do you have your temperatures set right for that type of filament? Nozzle diameter? 

Here are some maintenance tips, those better describe what you may want to check and adjust: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/top-6-tips-original-prusa-i3-3d-printer-maintenance/  

@neal-p

I am not sure why your X carriage and bundle bumps into electronics box. If it's assembled properly, it's fan screws that may hit into threaded rod. Cable bundle should be tied up at the back with zipties perpendicular to X axis and there's nylon wire inside holding it at an arc. I never experienced such issue, but maybe somebody did? 🤷‍♀️

By the way there is no need to make sophisticated stabilizing mods and what not. If you want to build enclosure, there are some tips on how to build enclosure and/or move PSU outside in Blog section of prusaprinters.org

Posted : 26/01/2020 2:44 am
Crawlerin
(@crawlerin)
Prominent Member
RE: Problem after problem
Posted by: @neal-p

It might be a good idea for Prusa to offer insurance to buy your printer back if you are dissatisfied. Then Prusa could sell the used parts to us if we need them for building printer farms.

If you bought it original from shop.prusa3d.com under your Prusa account, it should be normally covered by warranty. Contact support via online chat, they may be better at helping to resolve issues, offer replacement if part shows broken, and assist with changing it.

Posted : 26/01/2020 3:04 am
John
 John
(@john-6)
Reputable Member
RE: Problem after problem

To complement your anecdote I too bought a Prusa  and it too worked out of the box. 
I suggest you use the online chat to get you going again. And yes clean the bed and get the z value right. 

This post was modified 2 years ago by John
i3 Mk3 [aug 2018]...
Posted : 26/01/2020 4:33 am
Zoltan
(@zoltan)
Moderator
RE: Problem after problem

Hi @bwindsor95

I can understand you frustration, but I do not understand what do you expect from us. No clue what printer do you have , only guessing mk3s.

So can you please share a bit more info. Did it arrived  assembled or as a kit? Crewlerin already asked without answer. Did you pass succesfully all calibrations? What type and brand of filament you used when got a fillament stucked? Did your print last 10 minutes or 10 hours?

Do you have any picture of the fillament jammed?

Video of your crash wold help as well.

How much did you have chance to read about 3d printing before you did you first print? This forum is the source of almost unlimited know- how about printing.

Let us start with your more detailed troubles description, people here are skilled and willing to help, but you have to start share detailed info. And be sure one picture can tell more than 10 pages of text.

even an old man can learn new things 🙂
Standard I3 mk3s, FW 3.10.1 RC1, MMUS2, no closed box, sketchup , fusion 360, PrusaSlicer, Windows 10
PRUSA MINI FW 4.3.2-rc2 technical background, Prusa Connect Beta...
Posted : 26/01/2020 12:47 pm
Barry Windsor
(@barry-windsor)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Problem after problem

Thanks for your comment Crawlerin.

I did all you said. Preflight....Calibration Wizard......all ok, happy printing.

cleaned by washing, then window cleaner, then ISOPROPYL.

Now nothing is sticking.

IT IS CLEAN.

The annoying part about all this, I revert back to my original post. My friend bought a Balcony. Straight from the box it printed! This Prusa costs 4 times as much and it doesn’t print!

Where are the Prusa staff? Do they even read these posts? I get the impression that they work on the principle “we have got your money. Thanks for buying from us. You are now on your own!”

If it hadn’t cost me so much money it would now be in the bin.

 

 

Posted : 26/01/2020 3:06 pm
Barry Windsor
(@barry-windsor)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Problem after problem

Zoltan,

If you read my first post I DID state on the very last line Prusa i3 mk3S

Posted : 26/01/2020 3:09 pm
Crawlerin
(@crawlerin)
Prominent Member
RE: Problem after problem
Posted by: @bwindsor95

Thanks for your comment Crawlerin.

I did all you said. Preflight....Calibration Wizard......all ok, happy printing.

cleaned by washing, then window cleaner, then ISOPROPYL.

Now nothing is sticking.

IT IS CLEAN.

The annoying part about all this, I revert back to my original post. My friend bought a Balcony. Straight from the box it printed! This Prusa costs 4 times as much and it doesn’t print!

Where are the Prusa staff? Do they even read these posts? I get the impression that they work on the principle “we have got your money. Thanks for buying from us. You are now on your own!”

If it hadn’t cost me so much money it would now be in the bin.

 

 

This is community forum, if somebody from or related to Prusa Research stops by, it's at their own discretion. Possibly some moderators or community managers are PR employees, but everybody is here on volunteer basis.

PR has official customer support, that's one of the reasons why you paid more for the printer. If you go to https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/ log into your Prusa account, and in lower right corner there will be floating widget for online chat. If you do not see the widget, unblock livechatinc.com in PiHole, ad blocker or other privacy plugin.

Seriously, talk to them, they are more qualified to help you. We will gladly help you with the power of community knowledge, but can only do so much especially when you do not give much details.

Posted : 26/01/2020 4:24 pm
John
 John
(@john-6)
Reputable Member
RE: Problem after problem
Posted by: @bwindsor95

Thanks for your comment Crawlerin.

I did all you said. Preflight....Calibration Wizard......all ok, happy printing.

cleaned by washing, then window cleaner, then ISOPROPYL.

Now nothing is sticking.

IT IS CLEAN.

The annoying part about all this, I revert back to my original post. My friend bought a Balcony. Straight from the box it printed! This Prusa costs 4 times as much and it doesn’t print!

Where are the Prusa staff? Do they even read these posts? I get the impression that they work on the principle “we have got your money. Thanks for buying from us. You are now on your own!”

If it hadn’t cost me so much money it would now be in the bin.

 

 

Nearly every problem print is resolved by 

1 Cleaning the bed. You say it is clean but you have used window cleaner. This is used to help some filaments NOT stick too strongly. 
2 setting your z value correctly. 

i3 Mk3 [aug 2018]...
Posted : 26/01/2020 9:11 pm
John
 John
(@john-6)
Reputable Member
moojuiceuk
(@moojuiceuk)
Trusted Member
RE: Problem after problem

One thing I have suffered from recently over the Christmas holidays was what appeared to be a blocked nozzle when performing a number of retractions. Doing some research into this, I discovered the default E3D V6 head uses a plastic clip collet at the top of the heatsink to stop the PTFE insert from moving at all. I'm pretty sure the rapid retractions were the cause of my last printing woes. Fitting a makeshift collet did the trick for me. No clicking from the extruder motor since!

Collet Clips (Pack of 2)

Might be worth fitting one to your machine. They are pennies to buy or printable.

With the other weird behaviour, can you post a video of what it does, if it is producable?

Posted : 26/01/2020 11:16 pm
neal.p
(@neal-p)
Eminent Member
RE: Problem after problem
Posted by: @crawlerin

I am sorry to hear you have such problems. Did you buy pre-assembled or kit? I can tell you that buying upgrades like titanium hotends won't help if there's some other fundamental issue.

You mention you have bad bed adhesion. Solve that first. Do you have smooth or powder coated sheet? Either way, wash it with dish soap (don't use sponge, it's greasy), thoroughly rinse with plenty of hot water, and let dry on heated bed. Then use >91% Isopropyl Alcohol (don't use that while hot, it will evaporate sooner than you manage to spread it). Please, don't put sheets into dish washer - it contains additives like glass shine that definitely do not help adhesion, and salt will make steel sheets rust. Dish soap, IPA and not touching surface is enough.

Adjust your Z properly. Just in case, do the pre-flight checks and adjustments as described in manual and run calibration wizard again. If you updated firmware to 3.8.something from previous version, it may be good idea to do factory reset due to some changes in how it stores data in eeprom.

If your printer lifts head mid-print and parks to the edge of axis the returns, most probably it detected crash and tries to recover. Go to information about printer and check how many crashes were detected. Check whether bearings slide smoothly on rods, or it binds somewhere and makes it hard to move. May not be a bad idea to lubricate those while at it. Check belt tension and adjust belts as necessary. Check grub screws on motor shafts.

What material you print with? What kind of filament? Have you tried some other? Do you have your temperatures set right for that type of filament? Nozzle diameter? 

Here are some maintenance tips, those better describe what you may want to check and adjust: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/top-6-tips-original-prusa-i3-3d-printer-maintenance/  

@neal-p

I am not sure why your X carriage and bundle bumps into electronics box. If it's assembled properly, it's fan screws that may hit into threaded rod. Cable bundle should be tied up at the back with zipties perpendicular to X axis and there's nylon wire inside holding it at an arc. I never experienced such issue, but maybe somebody did? 🤷‍♀️

By the way there is no need to make sophisticated stabilizing mods and what not. If you want to build enclosure, there are some tips on how to build enclosure and/or move PSU outside in Blog section of prusaprinters.org

As far as the adhesion problem goes, Raspberry Pi and Octoprint bed leveling were significant factors to improve my adhesion problem. So I would recommend to somebody with adhesion issues to try it.

I am happy with my table. I am trying to see what kinds of tolerances I can achieve and hold. I want to use the printer like a machinist uses a mill. I want the peace of mind that vibrations are eliminated, even if the problem exists only in my mind. This is because one day I tried a honeycomb infill and something very bad happened that destroyed my extruder. When catastrophic events happen, then I need to know my part is not shaking off the bed. I need to eliminate that as the possible cause so that it doesn't distract me from the other possible real issues at play. 

I intend to make my own harnesses and move the controller box to where a raspberry pi camera can be used without an extension cable. And move the power supply under the heat bed because heat from the power supply should rise to where it assists the print.

Like I said, my immediate problem is capacity. I need more printers. I want 10-20 of them running at once. And after I get that built, maybe I will want 20 more.

I can do better than buying them fully assembled and putting them side by side on shelves. I can do better than buying and assembling kits. If I only order parts that cannot be locally sourced, then I can find cost reductions by building the printers myself with modifications that serve my specific needs. I think there are lots of ideas to consider when scaling up from just one printer. 

 

 

Posted : 27/01/2020 2:07 pm
neal.p
(@neal-p)
Eminent Member
RE: Problem after problem

I think my statement about insurance was poorly worded and caused confusion. I was trying to introduce the idea that there can be an after market for used Prusa printers. And if there was one, then I would expect to shop there.

Posted : 27/01/2020 2:24 pm
Crawlerin
(@crawlerin)
Prominent Member
RE: Problem after problem

@neal-p

So you want to build your own printers for a farm, instead of buying more Prusas? That's fine, if you find time and materials costs worth your use-case, by all means go for it.

I am not sure how well would PSU be under heated bed ... PSU should not produce THAT much heat to make any use of it, and one of reasons people put PSU outside enclosure is exactly opposite - to keep it cool, not warm by swinging bed at nearly temperature of boiling water just above it.

Firmware and profiles are usually tuned to match printer's components. Things like acceleration, backlash compensation etc. are configured to compensate for default printer's motion system. It can happen that if you change parts or conditions in which printer is used - for what logically should be better and smoother - you get worse results and artifacts get even more pronounced. See Thomas' video about changing Y rods for linear rails as an example, or Adam at Vector3D testing few mods and their impact on quality. Some parts changed will provide slight improvement, others don't (for example in Thomas' case people recommended rails for every other but Y axis in the comments  🙂 ). If you need to churn out prints faster, it may be better to find solution which matches this requirement like hotends with bigger volumetric flow and wider nozzles (prints at slow speeds making vibration smaller issue, but printed layers are very visible).

Posted : 27/01/2020 2:54 pm
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