[Solved] MK4 Wishlist  

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Luís Lopes
(@luis-lopes)
New Member

What about getting rid of those bloody zip ties?
It's a $ 1.000 machine

Posted : 03/06/2020 12:24 pm
RedDawg
(@reddawg)
Estimable Member

Here's another one I have posited before but should have included in this list: Produce build sheets that are are powder coated on one side and PEI on the other. That way you can have your choice of the two surface textures without having to manually change the live Z off-set. Sure, you can have multiple sheets "stored" in PrusaSlicer, but you still have to go through that exercise. Better if you don't have to.

1. "Every creative act results from a sudden cessation of stupidity." -Edwin Land, inventor of the Polaroid Land Camera. 2. "The experiment can always be solved with the materials in the room." -My college physics professor. 3. "If…...
Posted : 21/06/2020 1:24 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@luis-lopes

Zip ties are a great way to have replaceable wire holders that easy to install.  

Posted : 21/06/2020 4:53 pm
laura.f2
(@laura-f2)
Trusted Member

@charles-h13

agreed - the zip ties are very tidy and easy to replace

Posted : 21/06/2020 7:38 pm
Luís Lopes
(@luis-lopes)
New Member

Actually, zip ties for organizing cables don´t bother me that much. I just didn´t mention that before because I wanted to keep the post short. But when it comes to items such as rods, well... My picky side still can´t agree.

And nothing that available mods couldn´t solve, but I can´t remember of other piece of hardware at home within the same price range that has zip ties.

That´s my personal point of view. For some it certainly doesn´t make any difference at all.

Posted : 21/06/2020 7:59 pm
Mengirator
(@mengirator)
New Member

@crawlerin

I think they  should also change the chassis in MK4 for example Zaribo has a more rigid chassis...

Posted : 28/06/2020 12:31 am
peter.k42
(@peter-k42)
Estimable Member

@luis-lopes

I have seen this complaint for years.  I understand the complaint, but I agree with Prusa's decision.

I would guess that vast majority of the printers they sell are kits.  It is in their and the customer's best interest to simplify any portion of the assembly process.  Attaching the y rods is as simple as place/push/tie.  I bet this step is one of the least 'contact support' steps in the assembly.   It's simple, hard to get wrong and it works.  Have your y rods ever moved?  And, like you said, there are mods that you can apply if the zip tie bothers you enough.  I prefer a simple, not over-engineered approach when possible.

I have found support to excellent the few times I've needed it.  That's a good piece of the $750/$1000 machine.

Now, why they use U-bolts instead of a simple printed part..... Grr.

Posted : 28/06/2020 1:26 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@peter-k42

You would be surprised how many assembled machines they sell.  I was shocked by the old spreadsheet, but in general, you are correct.  

The u-bolts can be replaced by 3d printer parts or aluminum.  I purchased an aluminum replacement for on printer.  No worth the $.  

Posted : 28/06/2020 7:17 pm
pedja
(@pedja)
Eminent Member

USB cable connector should be places in more appropriate place.

On MK3S it is annoying: cable is bent in unantural way that screams it will break eventually and it tangles with cables for bed and z axis while printer works.

There also should be way to fix USB cable to create tension release on the cable bend.

Posted : 29/06/2020 8:41 am
neal.p
(@neal-p)
Eminent Member

I have 2 things I can think of to offer. First, I am self teaching about some robotics by learning some products offered by Igus. I was listening to an online video about their rail systems and they suggested one "fixed" rail would define the movement of the heat bed and the other side with a "float" rail would would accommodate any slight misalignments without altering the travel of the heat bed.

So I see videos of people trying to use Igus Drylin on Prusa and I think I must not be seeing anybody who is doing it the recommended way. One approach is to replace all bearings with Drylin bearings and I think that is making two floating rails. The other approach is replacing the linear bearings with Drylin rails and I think that is making two fixed rails. 

I have tried and so far I cannot find any video showing the application that uses one fixed rail and one float rail. So for MK4 I would like to ask if this idea can be addressed so it can be dismissed or the one fixed one float rail can be incorporated into the design. I just want to know because it interests me. And because I can't find any videos from hobbyists who tried it.

Second, I like the weather map feature on OctoPrint. I am self taught every step of the way and I saw a significant drop in my issues once I prepared my bed to measure +- 0.04mm of being flat. Not everybody thinks that was important. But it worked for me and I will do that to every printer from now on because I am now stubbornly convinced it helps me.

I used a method of removing all the standoffs (except the one in the center). Instead of those were nylock nuts up under the bed to hold it up from the underside. Octoprint gave a good estimate of where to find high and low spots. Knowing the peak to peak distance between two threads can be used to get the angular degree of tightening or loosening the m3 screw to achieve a precise change in height and to get very small adjustments required to make things flatter.

Can this idea or a similar idea be used to give us the option to do this tweaking without removing and replacing the standoffs? Does it even need to be Octoprint? Can it be a menu item that takes the reading and then tells us which point to move and how high counter clockwise or clockwise? What I did was a process that needed repeated many times. It took me a couple hours of adjusting one at a time to finally get the same consistent results at a few different temperatures. I imagine you could run the firmware script. It takes measurements then it does the math and tells you which screw to move and how far. You repeat this until everything is "flat" or to the desired result.

 

This post was modified 1 week ago by neal.p
Posted : 30/06/2020 6:10 am
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member

I have Drylin bushings on my X and Z axis and have been happy with them. I tried on the Y, but found it to be a disaster and went back to the factory bearings (BT properly greased). My issue on the Y was that the point between too tight where the bed doesn't move freely and loose enough where the bed just flops around was too fine and I never could find the sweet spot.

As fas as the bed calibration, the various Octoprint plugins just do the calculations for you, but the raw info is available to the console. I expect that one issue is the lack of memory they have on the Rambo that forces them to be picky about what is and isn't included. The other is that I don't know how much value such a tool even has until you move from the spacers to one of the leveling mods. The memory is likely to be addressed as they will probably move to a 16 or 32bit board. Making the Nyloc upgrade the standard confit would be nice and I doubt would change the price significantly if at all.

As far as the value of leveling, you aren't crazy. With the standoffs I was almost 2mm from one corner to its opposite which meant that I could only really use about 1/3 of my bed without having collision issues (especially on taller prints). Now my corner to corner deviation is only 0.025mm and I'm happily using 100% of my bed.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 30/06/2020 6:46 am
danie.pretorius
(@danie-pretorius)
Active Member

I have listened to the recent online discussion about the plans for non-planar 3D printing.  It makes complete sense that it has very limited improvement to bring to the surface finish and especially some limited use cases.  I think the biggest challenge is actually not so much the use cases as it is the limitation to what is possible in terms of using the current set up where you have a hotend and print bed that always moves at the same angle to each other.  This in my view is the actual limitation.  It means that your part always stays perpendicular so you remain with the same overhang restraints etc. It also means that you have very limited ability to do any non-planar printing without crashing some part into your print.  So yes, in this sense there is very limited use for non-planar printing.

This is not the kind of non-planar printing I have in mind though when I think of non-planar printing though.  What I would like to see is a way to move the print in different axes than just X/Y.  That is the ability to tilt it over to different sides and angles to allow for printing from the inside out.  This would also allow for printing with a lot less need for supports if any at all as the print can be tilted in such a way that the overhang is cancelled out.  The most important topic that I am thinking of though is that it would allow for crossing over layers in different directions which means that you are not anymore left with parts that are inherently weaker in one direction than in the other due to the layer adhesion limitations.

I was actually wondering the other day whether anyone has ever tried experimenting with a laser focused on the surface of the print at the tip of the extruder in order to heat up the previous layer just as the new layer is being printed to see whether the adhesion and maybe even the finishing can be further improved.

Posted : 30/06/2020 8:56 am
elsenberger.k
(@elsenberger-k)
New Member

The MK3s is my first Prusa (but 3rd printer), here's what I'll appreciate for next-gen in comparison with other printers I've used :

1. Touch screen (at least 4-5", capacitive) + panic button 

2. Build in WiFi or Octoprint + Prusa Connect Local with API access (and smartphone App)🤗 

3. Better heat dissipation for the extruder's motor (causing PLA jams).

4. Motors dampers for example and adapted mounts, for reduced vibrations (and therefore, noise)

5. Micro SD or both with SD (as most computers and phones nowadays have only micro SD slots).

 

Posted : 30/06/2020 2:07 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @elsenberger-k

3. Better heat dissipation for the extruder's motor (causing PLA jams).

Unless they move to active cooling, no amount of dissipation is going to help. They need to move to a geared model like the Bondtech, Bear, Skele, etc.. extruders. This allows the motor to be warm without impacting the filament.

They also need to get rid of that custom heat break and use the standard straight version as that is another source of jams.

I just recently upgraded to Bondtech's extruder and the straight heat break and I have it running nonstop spitting out prints it simply would not produce due to jamming from retraction issues. So far (maybe 50 tool changes) the straight break hasn't negatively impacted my MMU either.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 30/06/2020 2:28 pm
neal.p liked
Graham25Fox
(@graham25fox)
Trusted Member

Hi can you give me some more info on the heat break, that sounds a good way to go

one thing i would like on the wish list is a printer not to get frustrated and mad at...... dont think any one came make one of them....

Posted : 30/06/2020 3:09 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @graham25fox

Hi can you give me some more info on the heat break, that sounds a good way to go

one thing i would like on the wish list is a printer not to get frustrated and mad at...... dont think any one came make one of them....

Here is a video about it:

You can also find various threads around here discussing it.

The short of it is that Prusa had E3D customize the heat break to add a 2.2mm step inside (still 2mm toward the nozzle, but 2.2mm towards the extruder motor). They did this to help the MMU form better tips, but they ship it with all printers. The issue is that it can cause bits of filament get left behind and heat treated (so they don't melt again as easily). These bits can build up and cause a blockage and this is most commonly seen with lots of retractions.

You simply replace it with the standard E3D heat break that is 2mm all the way through.

I'm getting slightly more hair than I did with the stock extruder and break, but nothing a quick blast of the heat gun doesn't clean right up. It will also dribble out the residual plastic after the filament has been unloaded after the print is complete. Otherwise I have not seen any issues with normal or MMU prints. I have not tweaked anything in PrusaSlicer, but I did have an issue where my E steps were way low (280 vs 415) that was causing serious under extrusion.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 30/06/2020 3:36 pm
neal.p liked
neal.p
(@neal-p)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @gnat
Posted by: @elsenberger-k

3. Better heat dissipation for the extruder's motor (causing PLA jams).

 

They also need to get rid of that custom heat break and use the standard straight version as that is another source of jams.

 

The custom heat break was for multimaterial that requires lots of filament changes. If I am understanding it properly, diameters on both ends are different and that is because of what happens when filaments tips get repeatedly backed in and out. 

Posted : 30/06/2020 4:20 pm
neal.p
(@neal-p)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @danie-pretorius

 

I was actually wondering the other day whether anyone has ever tried experimenting with a laser focused on the surface of the print at the tip of the extruder in order to heat up the previous layer just as the new layer is being printed to see whether the adhesion and maybe even the finishing can be further improved.

I think when you are adding lasers onto 3D printers to be used as an additional heat source then you are adding a whole new can of worms in terms of industry standards and safety. The entire printer would need to be enclosed for trapping all light from the laser. This is fun to think about but what a chore! I guess the closest cousin to what you are saying would be laser marking systems. A company like Telesis is capable to do what you want

Posted : 30/06/2020 4:29 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @neal-p
Posted by: @gnat
Posted by: @elsenberger-k

3. Better heat dissipation for the extruder's motor (causing PLA jams).

 

They also need to get rid of that custom heat break and use the standard straight version as that is another source of jams.

 

The custom heat break was for multimaterial that requires lots of filament changes. If I am understanding it properly, diameters on both ends are different and that is because of what happens when filaments tips get repeatedly backed in and out. 

Yes it was done for the MMU.

No, the nozzle end is still the same size as the standard straight break. Then it steps up to 2.2mm.

It's not about the "repeatedly backed in and out" or number of tool changes. It is to help it form the tip bit giving tails something to catch on and get merged back into the tip during the ramming process.

I have a MMU and while I haven't done any crazy multi-thousand tool change prints since changing the heat break, I can still say that tool changes work just fine with this heat break. I would not recommend a novice MMU user swaps their heat break out of the gate, but once they get their MMU working reliably I think it is a very worthwhile upgrade. If your filament path is sound and the filament can move freely, then it should be able to form good tips just fine.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 30/06/2020 4:48 pm
neal.p
(@neal-p)
Eminent Member

I lost over half of my MMU jamming issues when I moved my spools up to a broom stick spanning across the floor braces in my basement's ceiling. Gravity assists pulling the filament off the spool and into the tubing that I have held in place with threaded eye loops screwed into a piece of pegboard flat against the wall. I had to clock the MMU bottom up 45 degrees to eliminate the extra turn in the filament's travel path. I think this method also somewhat uncurls the stiffened shape that only curls more severely as you reach the end of the spool. I will always place my filaments high and directly above the printer from now on. It is easy to catch the last part of the filament as it leaves the empty spool because it will curl and wrap around any rod that is there for it to spring around

Posted : 30/06/2020 4:54 pm
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