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insulationsystems.me
(@insulationsystems-me)
Eminent Member
First layer fail

I just about give up..

Yes plate has been scrubbed, tried the z up and down, different temps, I just don't know. I am running a ruby for the nozzle.

Its fine on one side, hops over and goes to crap. On different attemps its not in the same spot. So frustrated.

 

 

Posted : 12/10/2019 11:13 pm
insulationsystems.me
(@insulationsystems-me)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: First layer fail

Posted : 12/10/2019 11:18 pm
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member
RE: First layer fail

What is your printer? Passes all calibration tests?

You are using the smooth PEI sheet - so cleaning with 99% IPA should be fine.

What filament and what temperatures?

How does it do with the Prusa stock .4 mm brass nozzle?

Also show us a Live Adjust calibration print.

Posted : 13/10/2019 12:09 am
insulationsystems.me
(@insulationsystems-me)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: First layer fail

Ive been using 50% isopropyl alchohol. I hadnt put the other nozzle back on. I was hoping not to. I am using standard PLA from prusa and bumped the temp to 225 and bed to 70, but it didnt make much of a difference at standard temps. Whats the best way to show a Live adjust cal print?

Posted : 13/10/2019 12:43 am
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member
RE: First layer fail

Just take a picture like your first one.

Point of high percentage IPA is to avoid contaminants. I learned the hard way to not use my first aid bottle.

I recommend at least 91%.

 

 

Posted : 13/10/2019 1:21 am
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(@)
Illustrious Member
RE: First layer fail

I love the post that says "ys the plate has been scrubbed" when it so obviously has not been washed.    Use soap and water, actually clean the sheet, and you will find it works quite well.

Posted : 13/10/2019 9:01 pm
insulationsystems.me
(@insulationsystems-me)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: First layer fail

@tim-m30

I said that because I had scrubbed it getting the same results, and after about 20 attempts it got to look like that using the 50% stuff. I got some 91% and also some windex... It's been frustrating for sure

Posted : 13/10/2019 10:44 pm
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(@)
Illustrious Member
RE: First layer fail

Where does "I used alcohol" come anywhere close to using soap and WATER ???  Seriously - what are you afraid of?  That soap and water might actually work for you?

Posted : 13/10/2019 11:46 pm
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member
RE: First layer fail

For Soap - use an unscented detergent like Dawn. Not your handy bar of Dial.

Posted : 13/10/2019 11:49 pm
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(@)
Illustrious Member
RE: First layer fail
Posted by: @robert-rmm200

For Soap - use an unscented detergent like Dawn. Not your handy bar of Dial.

Although Dial body soap would provide better results than whatever has been done so far.

 

ps: pretty soon I expect to see another "USE SANDPAPER" convert... but I can see he's already tried that, too. 

This post was modified 2 years ago 2 times by --
Posted : 13/10/2019 11:52 pm
insulationsystems.me
(@insulationsystems-me)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: First layer fail

@robert-rmm200

I guess I need to really be clear,, I took off the plate, scrubbed  it with dawn, used scopious amounts of water to clean it,let it dry and wiped it with lint free cloth. Put it on the printer and got the same results. I tried several more times to print and print and print, then I started to use the 50% alchol to clean it hence the haze. I wasnt going to wash it with dawn every 5 minutes trying to figure this out. 

Posted : 14/10/2019 9:46 am
insulationsystems.me
(@insulationsystems-me)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: First layer fail

@tim-m30

please be nice.. I'm asking for help... the scratches was from a print that burned on the plate. Yes I am new at this, but please do not belittle me. 

Posted : 14/10/2019 9:49 am
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member
RE: First layer fail
Posted by: @insulationsystems-me

@robert-rmm200

I guess I need to really be clear,, I took off the plate, scrubbed  it with dawn, used scopious amounts of water to clean it,let it dry and wiped it with lint free cloth. Put it on the printer and got the same results. I tried several more times to print and print and print, then I started to use the 50% alchol to clean it hence the haze. I wasnt going to wash it with dawn every 5 minutes trying to figure this out. 

One good wash with Dawn should be enough. It is not something you do after every print or even every day.

Just when you need to remove the scum of everyday life.

And I really would not trust that 50% IPA. You think the other half is water - but it may not be.

And don't share your printer's bottle of IPA with any other use. I put mine in a squeeze bottle so nothing else can touch it.

On the chance you have a heat bed problem, try relocating your print to different spots on the bed. Maybe rotate it 180 degrees also.

This post was modified 2 years ago by rmm200
Posted : 14/10/2019 3:22 pm
Darrell
(@darrell)
Eminent Member
RE: First layer fail

I use 99% alcohol.  That sounds like the problem.  Also think of the extruder like a tube of toothpaste.  If you just lay it on top, it will fall off.  It's gotta really be squished down into the bristles (PEI) to stick.  I used to be afraid of getting the nozzle too close, but it's not a normal layer.  It really does have to be very close.

Posted : 14/10/2019 5:44 pm
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(@)
Illustrious Member
RE: First layer fail

If washed well, there would not be any streaks on the bed like these in your photos. Until the surface is actually grease free, you will have adhesion problems.  It really is that simple.  Soap, water, and fresh paper towels should be the only things touching the sheet. No alcohol; no dust cloths (most of which which contain mineral oil); no fingers.  Once the sheet is clean, PLA will stick.

All said, if a clean PEI sheet is still not grabbing PLA, oxides can form and acetone can be used to scrub off the oxide layer; but that is a once every couple of months affair.

I only am sarcastic because the recommendation to clean the sheet is being ignored.  If you believe you cleaned the sheet, great, but the fact is you haven't cleaned the sheet. Your photos are clear there is plenty of gunk still on it. Hot water, as hot as you can stand, rinse very well until water beads on the surface and sheets off.  Not a technical challenge, but you need to use gallons of hot water rinsing after the scrub, and scrub with a fresh paper towel. Don't touch the sheet print surface with hands, ever, even when washing. 

When the sheet is clean, it will be dark, no white film, no streaks of any kind, no finger prints, and PLA will stick to it with the same adhesion force as good masking tape.

ps: you Live-Z looks fine, no changes needed there. 

This post was modified 2 years ago by --
Posted : 14/10/2019 5:44 pm
insulationsystems.me
(@insulationsystems-me)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: First layer fail

@tim-m30

I can def take some critisism, and yes it did look bad... So i washed it several times with dawn, rinsed and rinsed and yes the print is better, but it stil seems to come apart at the same area. I even flipped the sheet over. The left side prints fine, then it skips to the right side and it bungles up (not Mr. Bungles) I just dont know.

 

Posted : 18/10/2019 10:00 pm
insulationsystems.me
(@insulationsystems-me)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: First layer fail

Ok, it's been a while and I thank all who responded. It's been a learning curve for sure!  I've been able to print what I've needed however I still have a few issues. The picture showing the burnt clump may be a big culprit with things. It happens every once in a while. It's PETG running at 245c with a ruby tip. 

 

Posted : 26/10/2019 2:45 pm
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(@)
Illustrious Member
RE: First layer fail

If you swapped nozzles, drops of burnt material coming from the heater block is very common when the V6 assembly procedure isn't followed to the letter.

The are several steps that are crucial.  The common notion is you tighten the nozzle into the heater block.  This is wrong.  You tighten the nozzle so it torques against the heat break.  When folk swap nozzles and don't follow the prescribed and detailed assembly procedure, the nozzle seems tight, but it and heat break are left with a gap, the heat break is loose, and filament can flow past the threads and drip. 

This also causes all sorts of print seemingly unrelated problems.

So question one is: Did you carefully follow the E3D-V6 assembly instructions when you installed the ruby nozzle?

This post was modified 2 years ago by --
Posted : 26/10/2019 4:04 pm
insulationsystems.me
(@insulationsystems-me)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: First layer fail

I thought I did, I loosened the heater block first, then took out the nozzle. I never noticed anything oozing out above the nozzle.

 

Posted : 26/10/2019 4:12 pm
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(@)
Illustrious Member
RE: First layer fail

That image sort of looks like ooze; where did it come from?

As for assembly, the V6 procedure isn't intuitive, and the Prusa version adds some confusion. It's a pretty common area where folk shoot themselves in the foot.  Take a close look at the nozzle: is the hex in contact with the heater block?  And after assembly, did you do a final torque at 285c?

In this image, note the ~1 turn gap between the nozzle hex and the heater block.

This post was modified 2 years ago by --
Posted : 26/10/2019 4:36 pm
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