Disinfecting / Re-disinfecting the masks? (Belgium refusing them)
 

Disinfecting / Re-disinfecting the masks? (Belgium refusing them)  

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Blizz
(@steve)
Estimable Member

In  Belgium, the initiative that came together to facilitate the distribution and collection of materials for first responders has decided not the allow the RC2 3d printed variant at all.

Basically - according to some of the hospitals - there's no evidence that they can be sufficiently (re)disinfected. For that reason they won't help in distribution. Is there any indication when the https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/prusa-face-shield-disinfection_125457 will be updated with results? Because that's what they are using to refuse it.

Would be nice if cleared up as there are a lot of already printed ones ready.

MK3S / MK2.5S-MMU2S / Ultimaker 2+...
Posted : 26/03/2020 9:06 am
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Noble Member

This is exactly why it was generally advised not to start arbitrarily printing masks without guidance from local authorities... 

Here they are still having the same discussions on safety and sanitizing... so there are also a lot of people that may be cranking them out for nothing if it falls through.

Posted : 26/03/2020 11:41 am
Blizz
(@steve)
Estimable Member

Given the urgency with which they're needed - if they are deemed acceptable - and the initial positive reply from the hospitals it was decided it was a good idea to start printing. Which we did. Unfortunately that has changed.

It's true that it is a risk to take but IMO worth it to be able to deliver in quantity once these tests complete.

So thank you for your reply, but my question was for more information/an update about the tests regarding disinfecting.

MK3S / MK2.5S-MMU2S / Ultimaker 2+...
Posted : 26/03/2020 11:57 am
neil-1
(@neil-1)
Active Member

Dunk them in hot water and bleach, or alcohol. The liquid will flow through the plastic and disinfect the whole thing or just let them sit for a week, that's supposed to kill it. Simple.  They need to realize these shields are for health care workers, not doctors in surgery. Get the admins out of the process and ask the nurses. Absolutely amazing. Regulations will kill as many health care workers as the virus and since, evidently, Belgium does not have an urgent need, ship them somewhere that needs them desperately now. I'll bet the docs in NYC know how to disinfect them, they've used thousands. Include a note in the bag for the admins saying DO NOT EAT. Good grief really?.......

Posted : 27/03/2020 4:03 pm
Blizz
(@steve)
Estimable Member

Yes that is my opinion as well, but its a matter of liability here.

Unless someone using my shields says they don't care I cannot claim that they are sufficiently disinfected without the tests on that page. I have the alcohol to do so, the masks, gloves. If they want sterile I can attempt to do that, but I'm not a sterile specialist and there's always a chance that I'm infected and just don't know about it and make a mistake.

That being said, the need is so high that I just delivered 20 shields to a hospital at their own request, they take the responsibility for disinfecting then. They were like: Just put them in a box, no bags needed, we'll disinfect. So it is possible...

The main issue for us is the "national initiative" (that is setting up the sites for request and delivery) is refusing in helping to distribute 3d printed shields. So unless we - who want to help - find needy locations ourselves (or get a local request), it's not really useful to print them as you might be stuck with them, which is ridiculous. And frustrating. I can help. I want to help.

 

This post was modified 3 days ago by Blizz
MK3S / MK2.5S-MMU2S / Ultimaker 2+...
Posted : 27/03/2020 4:13 pm
howardc
(@howardc)
Active Member

hello, I'm a physician in the united states.  I want to print an air filter adapter to use on a face mask.  The object is basically a cylinder about 1 inch wide and 2 inches long.  I've been wondering about this same issue of sterilization after using.  One problem with 3d printing is the irregularity of the surface of the object.  I don't have a lot of experience with 3d printing, but I know that 3d printed objects have a very irregular surface that is perfect for bacteria and viruses to hide in.  I've been trying to find ways to smooth out the surface and the methods I've found are either epoxy coating, or possibly sanding and painting.  If I were to make an object out of ABS, I could try smoothing with acetone.  Once I have a smooth surface, I would feel much safer after disinfecting with soap/water or bleach/water.  Of course I have no way of knowing if smoothing the surface truly reduces the risk of virulent transmission, but it definitely makes me feel better.  Which method would be the easiest to smooth out the object surface?

Posted : 28/03/2020 7:31 pm
joan.t
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator

ABS smoothing will definitely need time for the solvent to evaporate. painting will probably have the same issue. epoxy coating may be better as  long as you ensure that the epoxy has completely cured!

have you looked at the possibility of having the item resin printed?

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 28/03/2020 9:30 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Famed Member
Posted by: @howardc

[...] I know that 3d printed objects have a very irregular surface that is perfect for bacteria and viruses to hide in.  I've been trying to find ways to smooth out the surface and the methods I've found are either epoxy coating, or possibly sanding and painting. 

I've got some urethane spray that I'm going to try as a sealant. I've read of using window sealing strips (foam) for a tighter seal and better comfort around the face.

It's very confusing for the public as there are many official sources saying "hell no" and just as many direct pleas from front-liners saying they're desperate for anything. Any info you can provide is very much appreciated.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 28/03/2020 10:00 pm
neil-1
(@neil-1)
Active Member

 A picture would help a lot. Maybe it could simply be machined out of a chunk of plastic. We do it all the time and we're in Colorado.

Posted : 28/03/2020 10:37 pm
jakub.d
(@jakub-d)
Member Admin

We are currently in talks with hospitals and labs. Shields were provided for the tests, but it will take some time. I hope we will have the results during the next week.

Anyway, I don't understand, why the hospital is refusing the shields even if it is just for a single-use scenario. Still better than no shield at all. It is important to keep the production as clean as possible, then the risk for the doctor should be minimal.

Assembly manuals / Knowledge Base
The guy behind Prusa assembly manuals......
Posted : 28/03/2020 11:22 pm
howardc
(@howardc)
Active Member

This is a picture of the adapter, it was created out of a research lab at Stanford, it's not very large.  It's not quite as simple as a plastic cylinder, it does have some minor complexity on the inside.  I will look at urethane spray to see if that's an option, thanks!  I'm in Davis, CA. 

This post was modified 2 days ago by howardc
Posted : 28/03/2020 11:25 pm
nilok
(@nilok)
Estimable Member

My area in the midwest has announced not to accept ANY homemade masks, whether cloth or plastic.  That started with UNMC.  This was after they already asked for help sewing 10,000 masks in a news article.  Now they have requested all efforts go to repairing torn scrubs. Personally, I just called the doctors/dentist/pharmacy my wife and I use and offered to help with anything they need. It was all I could think to do.

It feels like the people making the decisions and policy are very much disconnected from the ones on the front lines.

EDIT: NOT a political statement

This post was modified 2 days ago by nilok
Is your printer grinding? Bearings squeaking? Motors smoking?
Step 1) Wash your Steel Sheet
Step 2) Return to Step 1...
Posted : 29/03/2020 12:10 am
glen.w7
(@glen-w7)
Active Member

@howardc

My friend and I are currently 3d printing face shields for BSU for local distribution to hospitals. He runs Micro Molding, injection molding. He is willing to help produce medical parts and is trying to get information to make the face shield straps by injection molding. I don't believe we can use the prussa design as it has internal fill. It would be risky to make a $30,000 to $50,000 mold to find out the weight is to heavy or tension is to high, if any one has a proven design that would work injection molded we would love to see some design specs. His capacity would be up to around 5,000 a day.

What kind of volume would be needed for your part? It looks pretty straight forward for injection molding.

What material would you like it made out of?

Posted : 29/03/2020 7:29 am
howardc
(@howardc)
Active Member

@glen-w7

That is super kind of you to even consider doing this, but I personally do not need that volume.  I only really need a handful, assuming I can disinfect these effectively.  I'm on multiple physician-only facebook covid-19 groups, if I see viable ideas from other physicians, would it be ok for me to pass your information along to them?  

If Prusa Printers sees this post, I also want to thank them for their amazing customer service, they have a new lifelong customer. I placed my first ever order with them 2 days ago (mk3s kit), and they said they would help expedite my order for me so I can start printing for my hospital asap.  Thank you very much!

Posted : 29/03/2020 6:01 pm
wdash
(@wdash)
Active Member

@howardc

This is a really good project; nice work!

Posted : 29/03/2020 6:22 pm
Blizz
(@steve)
Estimable Member

Has my thread been erroneously merged with some other one? All these unrelated replies all of a sudden?

MK3S / MK2.5S-MMU2S / Ultimaker 2+...
Posted : 29/03/2020 6:27 pm
Flo-r
(@flo-r)
Estimable Member

Hello

I have sprayed varnish over the face shield to help, they can then be washed like any other stuff.

MK3S depuis 26 janvier 2020...
Posted : 29/03/2020 6:40 pm
glen.w7
(@glen-w7)
Active Member

@steve

Sorry I don't go on forums much. I don't know how to respond only to the person making a post instead of public response. As far as your original post I agree its difficult to get medical providers let alone state actors to accept 3d printed maker products. Here in the US the Midwest area is refusing to accept them also. It appears a local approach through university's and large maker groups works. If I as an individual offered home made PPE I probably would get turned down. Boise State University is spearheading our local drive and handling disinfecting and packaging you might try a more local approach.

Posted : 29/03/2020 6:42 pm
nilok
(@nilok)
Estimable Member

I don't think the comments are erroneous, I just think we are seeing, in real-time, the differences in global reactions.  I am also in the midwest US where they are refusing homemade items, even after asking for them in public papers and news.  There is a lot of mixed information, and even more so when home countries are accounted for.  Most places seem to (me) want masks/help/ideas even if governing bodies have said otherwise.  Its really really confusing.........maybe we can each add our locations to comments so we know what part of the world we are referencing?

As of now - US, Nebraska (UNMC, Creighton) has publicly stated they will not accept homemade PPE items.  My wife and I are reaching out to the medical providers we use to ask them personally, however.

This post was modified 1 day ago by nilok
Is your printer grinding? Bearings squeaking? Motors smoking?
Step 1) Wash your Steel Sheet
Step 2) Return to Step 1...
Posted : 29/03/2020 7:04 pm
Blizz
(@steve)
Estimable Member

@nilok

Pretty sure @howardc's question about hist 3d printed piece and the replies to that is definitely not a part of this thread...

MK3S / MK2.5S-MMU2S / Ultimaker 2+...
Posted : 29/03/2020 7:32 pm
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